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#260418 - 2017-02-23 17:21 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Cleop Offline
Mostly harmless
Cleop Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I use a Denali 2000 on the DSP speakers, and a Shunyata Triton V3 on my front end. The Triton V3 uses the same new technology on all eight of its outlets that is used in the Denali 2000 and on the two high-current outlets of the Denali 6000. As I understand it, the technology reduces noise while not limiting current flow at all (in fact, Shunyata claims it actually enhances dynamics by acting as a current reserve, but they're coy about the details because it's the subject of a pending patent claim).

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#272109 - 2018-01-20 20:18 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: JohnMcElfresh]
Registered: 2013-02-27
Posts: 598
Soundserge Offline
Paranoid android
Soundserge Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2013-02-27
Posts: 598
Loc: Washington, DC, USA
Originally Posted By JohnMcElfresh
As I recall, long ago Meridian HQ (can't remember the individual) went on record on this forum stating they prefer NO power conditioning on DSP speakers.
I remember this too. So I was surprised to read this on Shunyata's web site (emphasis mine). No explicit mention of use with DSPs:
Originally Posted By Meridian on Shunyata web site
Meridian is one of the most respected manufacturers of digital electronics and speaker systems in the world, and has demonstrated the superiority of their products in both the professional and consumer markets. Meridian products have earned their place at the finest audio-visual dealers in the United States for a reason — the unparalleled value and technology contained within their complete audio-visual systems.

Meridian-America was exposed to Shunyata Research products through mutual dealers, and requested an evaluation. After performing extensive testing, Ken Forsythe and the principles of Meridian-America determined that Shunyata Research products profoundly improved the performance of their reference and test systems. Meridian-America now recommends and endorses Shunyata Research products for use within all of their systems.


Sonictransporter + Roon, 818v3, DSP 5200SEs, 218, DSP3200s
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#272111 - 2018-01-20 21:01 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Soundserge]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,325
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
I found the official statement in the FAQ on the 8k support page:

Quote:
9. SHOULD I USE MAINS CONDITIONING EQUIPMENT WITH THE LOUDSPEAKERS?

Quote:
No. Meridian DSP loudspeakers feature internal protection which, when activated, can demand high current from the mains supply in order to blow the fuse within the product. This is a deliberate aspect of their design and is a key safety feature. If, under these conditions, anything inhibits the current required to blow the fuse, the loudspeaker will be exposed to circumstances for which it was not designed. Such circumstances could result in catastrophic damage and become a fire-risk. It may be thought that this can be avoided by using a mains conditioner which boasts a current rating which is higher than that required to blow the loudspeaker’s fuse. However, the possibility of the mains conditioner itself developing a problem needs to be considered. If a problem in the conditioner restricts its current delivery capabilities, and then the loudspeaker suffers a failure as described above, the fuse may not blow and a serious risk of fire will result.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#272147 - 2018-01-21 16:58 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Soundserge]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
Loc: Surrey, UK
Matches my findings exactly. Not cheap but in the Meridian world a very worthwhile step.

See my post on the topic a few months ago.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#272159 - 2018-01-22 01:13 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Cleop]
Registered: 2004-02-02
Posts: 124
GovCon Offline
Hitchhiker
GovCon Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2004-02-02
Posts: 124
Loc: Frederick, Maryland, USA
I'm a bit late to this party. But reading through the responses, there were some statements about the Equitech balanced power products. I don't understand where the comments about the sound being lifeless, leaned out, or reduced in dynamics are coming from. I have 3 Equitech products supplying power to my system; 1.5BQ, 2BQ, and 2Q. The 1.5BQ and 2BQ are the hardwired units where the 2Q is the rack mount unit with outlets. I have the 1.5BQ and 2BQ supplying power to my Bryston 6B-ST amp, Velodyne HGS15II, and Velodyne DD18 via dedicated circuits. The rest of my components are plugged into the 2Q including the Emotiva XPA-2 used for my rear surrounds. I have never noticed any constraints in dynamics or life with the sound in my system.

I've popped open the units and the heart of the Equitech products is the balanced power transformer. There's really not much more to it especially for the hard wired products. Here are pictures of the insides of the units I have. I find it hard to believe any of these units are holding back on any current draw.






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#272162 - 2018-01-22 12:31 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: GovCon]
Registered: 2003-09-15
Posts: 375
JohnMcElfresh Offline
Hitchhiker
JohnMcElfresh Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2003-09-15
Posts: 375
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
I have one of the noise "meters" demonstrated in the video - sound plus numeric readout. I just want to caution all that the exact same results can be realized with the $250 Monster Power Bar I bought in the early 1990s. Now I have no doubt that Shunyata, Equitech, et al have far more sophisticated devices, but I'm not sure an objective, measurable demo will lead you to an answer. I, myself have Exact Power conditioning on all my source components, but I don't condition my DSPs. Years ago I had a pair of high current of PS Audio Ultimate Outlets, but I don't believe they made a positive sonic difference. Many good amplifiers have excellent common mode noise rejection (Meridians DSPs do), which is what these transformer-based solution provide.

John


My system: Apple TV, HD621, G68D, AC11, 218, DSP7200SE (L+R), DSP3200 (L+R Rear) [Zone 2 - M3100 L+R]
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#272171 - 2018-01-22 17:18 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: JohnMcElfresh]
Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 171
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 171
Loc: London, UK
Out of curiosity, what function is being improved by mains conditioning?

This stuff is converted to DC to run components. Does it therefore help by providing better DC?

Are they other ways of providing better DC by using better components inside?

Just trying to be logical (Captain...)

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#272173 - 2018-01-22 19:14 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Ogri]
Registered: 2000-06-08
Posts: 267
Marc Koval Offline
Hitchhiker
Marc Koval Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2000-06-08
Posts: 267
Loc: Dglv, Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By Meridian on Shunyata web site
Meridian-America was exposed to Shunyata Research products through mutual dealers, and requested an evaluation. After performing extensive testing, Ken Forsythe and the principles of Meridian-America determined that Shunyata Research products profoundly improved the performance of their reference and test systems. Meridian-America now recommends and endorses Shunyata Research products for use within all of their systems.
Takes a lot of creative license from what was said to them by Ken.

Norm and I were there and vetted the email he sent. Cannot remember the exact quote but it boiled down to 'These don't seem to do any harm' Norm and I were very clear that we would not and could not endorse their products as an improvement to the sound quality.


Marc Koval
The Repair Shop
404-585-1102
marc<dot>koval<at>gmail<dot>com

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#272176 - 2018-01-22 19:31 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Marc Koval]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,454
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,454
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
What's your view on possible fire risk Marc?


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#272178 - 2018-01-22 19:38 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Ogri]
Registered: 2004-02-02
Posts: 124
GovCon Offline
Hitchhiker
GovCon Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2004-02-02
Posts: 124
Loc: Frederick, Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By Ogri
Out of curiosity, what function is being improved by mains conditioning?

This stuff is converted to DC to run components. Does it therefore help by providing better DC?

Are they other ways of providing better DC by using better components inside?

Just trying to be logical (Captain...)
Reading through the "science" around balanced power, it seemed to make some sense. My primary goal is to ensure clean/stable power. When I was investing in the Equitech equipment, I was building out my basement sound room. So it was just a natural progression of just adding in the hard wired components along with the rack mount unit. I got some great deals at the time going direct with Equitech. If I were to do it now, I don't know if I would have spent the now significant cost differential in having balanced power in my system.



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#272179 - 2018-01-22 20:29 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2000-06-08
Posts: 267
Marc Koval Offline
Hitchhiker
Marc Koval Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2000-06-08
Posts: 267
Loc: Dglv, Georgia, USA
"What's your view on possible fire risk Marc?"

Don't screw with it. If you want you can replace with a "better" quality fuse of the same current and time spec. (from memory, 10A Delay Blow) but if you put in something bigger, or bypass the fuse, yes very good chance you can cause the speaker to catch fire if a fault occurs.


Marc Koval
The Repair Shop
404-585-1102
marc<dot>koval<at>gmail<dot>com

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#272206 - 2018-01-23 16:57 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: _M_]
Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 171
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker
Ogri Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 171
Loc: London, UK
I’m still interested in the theory. Presumably those spending money on this have an idea about the science? Not wanting a debate, just basic understanding.

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