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#258411 - 2017-01-27 23:24 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: JaapJan]
Registered: 2000-06-08
Posts: 267
Marc Koval Offline
Hitchhiker
Marc Koval Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2000-06-08
Posts: 267
Loc: Dglv, Georgia, USA
for the OP.

No power "conditioning" built in. Massive transformer and lots of reservoir. If you want to condition you need something that can deliver up to 10 amps instantly.

Marc


Marc Koval
The Repair Shop
404-585-1102
marc<dot>koval<at>gmail<dot>com

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#258426 - 2017-01-28 09:54 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Marc Koval]
Registered: 2012-02-20
Posts: 263
Clemburt Offline
Hitchhiker
Clemburt Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-02-20
Posts: 263
Loc: North Yorkshire, UK
How many amps would a 5200SE require?


Main system: MD600, 818v3, 5200SE, Rupert Neve headphone amp, Sennheiser HD650, Oppo PM-3
Kitchen: MS200, F80
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#258433 - 2017-01-28 11:35 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Clemburt]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,614
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,614
Loc: Austria, Europe
Be carefull with all your power conditioners refer to very short current surges.
The charging capacitor in the internal power supply have to get loaded from the main voltage through rectifier (they made the AC/DC conversation).
The charging capacitor smooth out the half sine waves from the rectifier.

When the half sine voltage go up to the peak the capacitor get loaded.
That time is very short,its about from zero(no charging) to about few milliseconds(1-3ms depends on the load). So in that few milliseconds(1/1000 of a second) a very high current flow to charge the capacitor.
At that moment even the main current is very high !
I measured ONE 8k on the main when a deep organ tone was played very loud. The current of the main line only for one speaker was 37,5 amps for 1,5 milliseconds !!

My speakers runs on 230 VAC so for US main voltage the current have to be even higher(2x) to give the same power as for 230 VAC.
The average power is about only 70 watts when you measure it with a good power meter as only very special meters can catch such a short time.
So your power conditioner have to deliver that current/power in that short time(few milliseconds) not in 10 or 20 ms.
And that is the problem where the problems starts with loads thats need a lot power even only for a short moment. With sources that kind of problem does not appear or not important.
But as all, finally your ears decide what you want/need/avoide.


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#260053 - 2017-02-19 01:02 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: JOE-C]
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Cleop Offline
Mostly harmless
Cleop Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I've tried so many power cables on my DSP8000's, I've lost count. Many of them were filtered, including top-of-the-line products from Transparent, MIT, Kimber, and Shunyata.

I've also tried various power conditioners with the speakers from Shunyata, PS Audio, Silent Running, Adept Response, Acoustic Revive, Sound Application, Synergistic Research, Exact Power, Equitec, and Walker Audio (and probably some others I'm forgetting about).

Basically, I've tried tweaking my 8000's to death from a power conditioning standpoint.

Pretty much everything I tried colored the sound and/or constricted dynamics. All of the power conditioners sapped the life out of the music. The best of the power cords was the Shunyata Sigma HC, which does have some mild filtration (but apparently not that much, since it's designed to be used with, not instead of, the company's power conditioners) but otherwise is essentially a large-gauge, well-constructed PC with high-quality connectors.

Then, about three months ago, based on my positive experience with the Sigma HC and some rave reviews in the press (what else do audio magazines publish these days?), I decided to try a Shunyata Denali 2000 power conditioner on my 8000's. To my great surprise and amazement, it made everything better with no discernible side-effects. The music was more natural and dimensional, the highs cleaner, the bass more defined -- and all without dynamic restriction. In short, it was -- and is three months later -- exactly what I always wanted out of a power conditioner.

Now, there are a number of highly-respected power conditioners out there I still haven't tried (the Audioquest 7000 and the Isoteck products come to mind). But I can't imagine any of them being significantly better than the Denali, and I'm sure many aren't as good. For all you DSP owners out there, I highly recommend you at least try a Denali in your system before considering any other tweak. Needless to say, I bought the one I tried.

One last caveat: my system is not on a dedicated electrical circuit, so it's always possible the effects of the Denali would be less pronounced with a system that is on its own circuit.

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#260239 - 2017-02-20 23:42 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Cleop]
Registered: 2007-11-11
Posts: 103
AudioBoy Offline
Hitchhiker
AudioBoy Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2007-11-11
Posts: 103
Loc: Seattle, WA, USA
Cleop,
Do you still need the expensive Power cords after acquiring the Denali power conditioner? Does it remove the need to have them or are they still preferred as part of your setup?

Have you tried any conditioners based on isolation or balanced configurations like Torus, Equi=tech etc?

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#260307 - 2017-02-21 17:15 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: AudioBoy]
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Cleop Offline
Mostly harmless
Cleop Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I already had the Shunyata Sigma power cords, so I saw no reason to take them out. To be honest, I haven't compared the system with and without them since I got the Denali. I like what I'm hearing, and that's enough for me.

Yes, I tried several different versions of the Equi=Tech balanced line conditioners. I felt they slightly leaned out the sound and reduced dynamics. A friend has one of their huge wall panels, which should swing more current and help with the dynamics, and he used to swear by it until he tried an Audioquest Niagra 7000, which he feels made a big improvement. I have to believe that if the Equi=Tech did everything right, I doubt he would've noticed such an improvement when he added the Niagara.

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#260313 - 2017-02-21 17:49 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Cleop]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
Loc: Surrey, UK
@ Cleop, thanks for the info. Do you use 1x Denali for both 8k's or one for each 8k?

Any thoughts on that (besides the cost)?


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#260383 - 2017-02-23 04:25 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Cleop Offline
Mostly harmless
Cleop Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2010-10-13
Posts: 42
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I use one Denali for both speakers. Maybe two would be better -- I don't know.

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#260409 - 2017-02-23 15:23 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Cleop]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,436
Loc: Surrey, UK
Thanks. How does the maths stack up driving 2 DSP vs the spec of the Denali ? I may get a demo and see what gives anyway.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#260412 - 2017-02-23 15:41 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Cleop]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,290
Crion Online content
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Online content
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,290
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Denali 6000 is made to drive 2 poweramps and 4 front-end electronics.

If you want to scale this up you could complement with a Denali 2000 for just the DSP8k's on a dedicated breaker.

Denali 6000 is a perfect starting point if you want to really push down the noisefloor while keeping dynamics intact which the listener percieves in total as a dynamics increase. smile


Future 861 MQA/24-192 system upgrade owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, Apple-TV 4K with nFuse 5, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> UHD722 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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#260413 - 2017-02-23 15:48 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,403
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,403
Loc: Europe
I am puzzled, push the noisefloor down, this surely depends on where you start or is it saying it does it regardless of the start point?

Russ


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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#260417 - 2017-02-23 17:04 Re: Power Conditioning on DSP8000SEs [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,290
Crion Online content
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Online content
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,290
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden


Unless you are living in a controlled lab environment you have have a benefit from noisereduction on your mains power.

Every SMPS in your home connected is injecting high frequency distorsion into all other things connected including your audio gear.



Future 861 MQA/24-192 system upgrade owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, Apple-TV 4K with nFuse 5, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> UHD722 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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