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#242843 - 2015-11-16 21:16 MS200 MQA Support
Registered: 2013-01-17
Posts: 245
Roving Gecko Offline
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I was contemplating a MS200 (again) and wonder whether it is expect to (become) MQA supportive?

Any thoughts?


Meridian G68 AXV, HD621 | Cinepro 2k6mk5 | 4x Scanspeak A4 monitors, center & 26W Sub | RPi Hifiberry digi+ | Roon
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#242845 - 2015-11-16 21:35 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Roving Gecko]
Registered: 2014-10-18
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Big T Offline
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No reason why it can't support it with SE speakers, as I understand it no processing is needed to decode the stream until it hits the loudspeakers.

T


Lounge: DSP33's, MS200, QNAP (Storage and Core), G68D, HD421
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#242849 - 2015-11-16 22:07 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Big T]
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Ian Offline
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Ian Offline
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Doesn't MQA require an MHR link? Is MS200 MHR capable - I'm not sure it is.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#242864 - 2015-11-17 08:20 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ian]
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Ludwig Offline
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I wouldn't buy an MS200 right now, if you want MQA.


Ex-moderator
Sitting room: 818v3, 8kSE
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TV room: HD621, 518, D33
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#242866 - 2015-11-17 08:26 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ludwig]
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Altus Offline
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+1. I heard a rumour there's about to be a "cheap" M product launched, no idea whether it's the MS200 replacement with MQA but it would seem logical.


Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP869 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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#242891 - 2015-11-17 13:38 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Altus]
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Roving Gecko Offline
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Thanks for the intel.


Meridian G68 AXV, HD621 | Cinepro 2k6mk5 | 4x Scanspeak A4 monitors, center & 26W Sub | RPi Hifiberry digi+ | Roon
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#242893 - 2015-11-17 14:15 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Roving Gecko]
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dpstjp Offline
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Then all you'll need are some MQA files to play on it...


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#242904 - 2015-11-17 17:23 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: dpstjp]
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Martins HiFi Offline
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IIRC - the MS200 wont authenticate the MQA files..

Ian.


Martins HiFi Meridian Partner for East Anglia 01603 627010
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#242911 - 2015-11-17 20:13 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Martins HiFi]
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Big T Offline
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As the MQA files can be in a FLAC container the MS200 should just play them? Via the speakerlink port it should just pass the data to a decoder/SE speakers.

The analogue output is a different story altogether mind.

A software update is all that is required should Meridian wish to do so.


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#242912 - 2015-11-17 20:23 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ludwig]
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Hector Offline
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Originally Posted By Ludwig
I wouldn't buy an MS200 right now, if you want MQA.


Would you also advise against buying an MS600 at this time for similar reasons?

Hector


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Edited by Hector; 2015-11-17 21:45. Edit Reason: Punctuation
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#242913 - 2015-11-17 21:20 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Big T]
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Ian Offline
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Originally Posted By Big T
As the MQA files can be in a FLAC container the MS200 should just play them? Via the speakerlink port it should just pass the data to a decoder/SE speakers.


MQA is a multistep process in the Meridian world of Sooloos. Sooloos decodes, SE speakers render/perform DAC management, and between the two you require an MHR capable connection. MHR capabilities are determined by the digital receivers and transmitters and not solely by firmware.

So if no MHR capable hardware on MS200, no MQA.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#243112 - 2015-11-24 07:42 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ian]
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JohnnyM Offline
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Probably a daft question, but if you fed the MS200 into a processor that has MHR via the optical output on the MS200, would this still not work either? I assume both the processor and MS200 would need MHR?


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#243113 - 2015-11-24 08:49 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: JohnnyM]
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VirusKiller Offline
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Originally Posted By JohnnyM
Probably a daft question, but if you fed the MS200 into a processor that has MHR via the optical output on the MS200, would this still not work either? I assume both the processor and MS200 would need MHR?
See Bob Stuart answer A8.2 in the CES 2015 (MQA) Q&A thread: the processor must either be MQA-compliant or must do *nothing* to the input bits. In theory, as MHR is "only" a transport protocol, you could have a processor which did nothing more than send the same bits out as MHR rather than PCM, but that is missing the point.

*At present*, it *appears* that some processing needs to be done on the MQA file prior to sending it to the speakers. i.e. From what we've seen so far, a pair of SE loudspeakers can't decode a raw (bit-perfect) MQA file. At some point, we may learn what the architectural possibilities actually are, but for the time being, we need an MQA decoder *prior* to the speakers and MHR transport capability from the decoder to the speakers.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
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#243115 - 2015-11-24 09:23 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ludwig]
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Ludwig Offline
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Originally Posted By Ludwig
I wouldn't buy an MS200 right now, if you want MQA.


Ex-moderator
Sitting room: 818v3, 8kSE
Office: dCS Rossini DAC/Clock, Stax SRM-T1, Stax SR404LE
TV room: HD621, 518, D33
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#243119 - 2015-11-24 13:08 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ludwig]
Registered: 2012-09-16
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Huw Offline
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I bought some very nice 5200Es, early this year after hearing the great MQA demos.

Reading between the lines in foregoing posts suggests that I might not be able to enjoy MQA via my MS200 or MS600, either coming from C15, (with or without AC200) and for sure not from my G61RSL v2, but I did guessed that unit could be a problem.

The never ending wait for MQA from demo time is tiresome and I now fear increasing caveats that will mean more expenditure to reach the desired result.

I am sure I am by no means the only one!

Of course the 5200SE's are still great speakers.

Thanks
Regards Huw


Room1 MS600, G61RSL, HD621, 7K, 5KHC (96/24), 5K (96/24), SW1600, Panasonic plasma, Sony BRD PS3, Humax, M7 Dutch decoder.
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#243120 - 2015-11-24 13:20 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Huw]
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Altus Offline
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This has been known for a long time if you read through previous posts, some of which are quite early in the discussion. Meridian have no control over the length of the wait unfortunately - it is now in the hands of MQA Ltd (who own the MQA IP) and ultimately the studios and artists.


Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP869 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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#243123 - 2015-11-24 13:55 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Huw]
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JohnnyM Offline
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Originally Posted By Huw
The never ending wait for MQA from demo time is tiresome and I now fear increasing caveats that will mean more expenditure to reach the desired result.
The way things are moving it looks like the new world of Sooloos will be much affordable than before with Core and Store on a QNAP, Windows Sooloos Touch application is moving in the right direction in terms of cost.

I'm glad I didn't buy an MC200 last year as I nearly did. Hopefully there be a nice new improved (and cheap!) source along soon smile


#1 G91A, DSP5000 (96/24), MS600, QNAP TS-251
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#243124 - 2015-11-24 14:11 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Altus]
Registered: 2012-09-16
Posts: 496
Huw Offline
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Who is MQA Ltd? I do not remember seeing that announcement. Does not bode well.

6 months ago I was going to sell all my home cinema kit and revert to two channel MQA- glad I waited... and waited.

Regards
Huw


Room1 MS600, G61RSL, HD621, 7K, 5KHC (96/24), 5K (96/24), SW1600, Panasonic plasma, Sony BRD PS3, Humax, M7 Dutch decoder.
Room2 C15, AC200 MS200, 5K2SE, iDock.
Room3 562v, 565, 504, 5Ks & 5KHC 18 bit, MS200, TwinStore, Explorer1, Arcam Solo, Systemdek I920, Ortofon M520. QNAP
Room4 Panasonic 4K LED, Canton DM75 .
Room5 F80, iDock, Explorer 2
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#243125 - 2015-11-24 14:16 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: JohnnyM]
Registered: 2012-09-16
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Huw Offline
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I also bought a large QNAP on the strength of all this promised new found flexibility- to be honest it has been a real struggle so far and we are not quite there yet.
Sooloos was a cinch, though maybe not perfect.
Still work in progress
Regards
Huw


Room1 MS600, G61RSL, HD621, 7K, 5KHC (96/24), 5K (96/24), SW1600, Panasonic plasma, Sony BRD PS3, Humax, M7 Dutch decoder.
Room2 C15, AC200 MS200, 5K2SE, iDock.
Room3 562v, 565, 504, 5Ks & 5KHC 18 bit, MS200, TwinStore, Explorer1, Arcam Solo, Systemdek I920, Ortofon M520. QNAP
Room4 Panasonic 4K LED, Canton DM75 .
Room5 F80, iDock, Explorer 2
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#243126 - 2015-11-24 14:45 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Huw]
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Altus Offline
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Originally Posted By Huw
Who is MQA Ltd- do not remember seeing that announcement. Does not bode well.
MQA Ltd has been around since the middle of the year at least (see previous posts on MQA status) and has been set up as a separate company to manage the commercialisation of MQA. I understand that Meridian sold its IP in MQA to the company earlier this year. From memory, the company itself is 80% owned by the same venture capitalists that own Meridian, with two key players in the team owning the remaining 20%. Far from being a bad thing it gives more focus to the process and is certainly incentivised to succeed.


Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP869 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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#243128 - 2015-11-24 15:20 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Altus]
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VirusKiller Offline
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Originally Posted By Altus
it is now in the hands of MQA Ltd (who own the MQA IP) and ultimately the studios and artists.
I think it's more in the hands of the studios and artists than MQA Ltd.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#243129 - 2015-11-24 17:44 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: VirusKiller]
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ChrisLayerUK Online content
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If you haven't already done so, you should watch the You Tube Conference from the Rocky Mountain audio fest.
Here Bob and the Chap from Tidal talk a lot about MQA and the underlying philosophy. Roon is also discussed.

Bob stated that most high end DACs can be upgraded to support MQA, and I would like to think the MS200/MS600 are sufficiently Hi End.

Also it was stated the time blur is the problem MQA solves. The resultant files will be better than CD as the Time Blur will be reduced up to the point of your DAC.

Watching this will also explain the wait for material.

Just thoughts as a lot of the points in this thread lead me to think people haven't watched the video. Chris 🙂


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#243130 - 2015-11-24 18:25 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
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Altus Offline
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Originally Posted By ChrisLayerUK
Bob stated that most high end DACs can be upgraded to support MQA, and I would like to think the MS200/MS600 are sufficiently Hi End.
Chris

I think Bob's comment refers to the analogue outputs of high end DACs rather than the digital outputs of end points (streamers). I don't think it is intended that MQA will be delivered digitally within the Meridian eco-sphere other than via MHR and I think the common understanding is that this is not possible through the the MS200/MS600 devices. For third party DACs, decryption and conversion of MQA to analogue will very much be contained "within the device" with no form of MQA available on any digital outputs. Rather like SACD is handled today.

It may be possible to upgrade the firmware in the MS200/MS600 devices to allow decryption of MQA and conversion through the analogue outputs but I don't know whether this is under consideration, and I certainly wouldn't rely on it. Ludwig's advice, as ever, is very sound.


Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP869 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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#243131 - 2015-11-24 18:38 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Altus]
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ChrisLayerUK Online content
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Got it, but the files should still be an upgrade on red book CD which is a plus for everyone. Chris 🙂


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#243132 - 2015-11-24 18:51 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
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Altus Offline
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Agreed. The "unfolded" file which can be read by any DAC should sound better than CD - it is effectively a high resolution file compressed into a 16/44 format using a benign and clever process.


Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP869 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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#277289 - 2018-06-19 13:17 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Altus]
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Struttmaster Offline
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I have a Prime headphone amp winging its way to Oz and was wondering, hoping that my MS200 will act as a Roon end point and allow full MQA rendering in the Prime.

Would anyone be able to confirm this please?

Thanks,
Andrew


HT: G68ADV w/LPS, HD621, DSP5000 F&C 24/96, DSP3100, Allo digi
Office: Fanless 7i5 running ROCK, 218, Woo Audio WA2 (w/50yo Tung-Sol tubes), Focal Utopia
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Bedroom: MRendu w/IsoREGEN, 568.2mm, 598, 3100C
BBQ/Party: Raspberry Pi, Explorer 2, F80
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#277292 - 2018-06-19 13:40 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Struttmaster]
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Ratbert Offline
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Hi Andrew

Your MS200 will work as a Roon endpoint, full MQA decoding and rendering is only available on the Prime via the USB input according to the data sheet whistle the MS200 will be able to receive and pass the first decode from Roon but the rendering can not be done afaik. A possibility is using a 218 to do the decode and render and connect the analog out to the Prime in theory that should give you full MQA.... maybe Joel could confirm?


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
Edited by Ratbert; 2018-06-19 14:18.
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#277317 - 2018-06-19 17:17 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ratbert]
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Struttmaster Offline
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Thanks Russ,

If the MS200 ends up being a no go, would plugging the ROCK NUC into the Prime be an option?

Would an Allo USBridge work?

Thanks,

Andrew


HT: G68ADV w/LPS, HD621, DSP5000 F&C 24/96, DSP3100, Allo digi
Office: Fanless 7i5 running ROCK, 218, Woo Audio WA2 (w/50yo Tung-Sol tubes), Focal Utopia
Family Room. Grandinote Volta, Ultra rendu w/LPS 1.2, Prime with PSU, Grandinote Shinai
Bedroom: MRendu w/IsoREGEN, 568.2mm, 598, 3100C
BBQ/Party: Raspberry Pi, Explorer 2, F80
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#277318 - 2018-06-19 17:19 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Struttmaster]
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Ian Offline
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Ian Offline
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Look at the Roon bridge on Raspberry Pi


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#277323 - 2018-06-19 17:43 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Struttmaster]
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Ratbert Offline
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Hi Andrew.

Good thought, either way should work although the USbridge gives more flexibility over location just ensure Roon does not do the decode.

Russ


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
Edited by Ratbert; 2018-06-19 18:38.
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#277327 - 2018-06-19 18:28 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2016-11-27
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Struttmaster Offline
Hitchhiker
Struttmaster Offline
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Registered: 2016-11-27
Posts: 193
Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
Cheers


HT: G68ADV w/LPS, HD621, DSP5000 F&C 24/96, DSP3100, Allo digi
Office: Fanless 7i5 running ROCK, 218, Woo Audio WA2 (w/50yo Tung-Sol tubes), Focal Utopia
Family Room. Grandinote Volta, Ultra rendu w/LPS 1.2, Prime with PSU, Grandinote Shinai
Bedroom: MRendu w/IsoREGEN, 568.2mm, 598, 3100C
BBQ/Party: Raspberry Pi, Explorer 2, F80
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#277339 - 2018-06-19 20:00 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Struttmaster]
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ncpl Offline
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RPi with Roon Bridge works perfectly well into a Prime. £40 ish and about 10 mins one time to follow a script to load the pi.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#277344 - 2018-06-19 21:38 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2016-11-27
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Struttmaster Offline
Hitchhiker
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Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
Sounds the go.
Thanks Nick


HT: G68ADV w/LPS, HD621, DSP5000 F&C 24/96, DSP3100, Allo digi
Office: Fanless 7i5 running ROCK, 218, Woo Audio WA2 (w/50yo Tung-Sol tubes), Focal Utopia
Family Room. Grandinote Volta, Ultra rendu w/LPS 1.2, Prime with PSU, Grandinote Shinai
Bedroom: MRendu w/IsoREGEN, 568.2mm, 598, 3100C
BBQ/Party: Raspberry Pi, Explorer 2, F80
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#278415 - 2018-08-10 07:28 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ian]
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Grole Offline
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Hi Ian,

Is it possible to play MQA with combination Roon server (decoding MQA) - MS200 (end-point connected to SE speakers with SL) - 5200SE (rendering MQA)?

Regards


SG
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#278416 - 2018-08-10 08:06 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Grole]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,568
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
I don't believe MS200 supports MQA in any way other than passing a previous unfolded MQA signal - in other words an up to 96/24 PCM signal. At present, SE speakers need to be told its an MQA signal and that signal needs to be MHR encrypted, both of which MS200 cannot (and certainly with latter, due to hardware limitation, never will) output. Maybe one day, SE speakers, and Prime et. al. will recognise embedded partially unfolded MQA signal and perform further MQA processing without these limitations, but its just rumour for the time being - not helped by the rumour that most of Meridians former DSP people now work for MQA.

So for time being, the best you will get is part unfolded 96/24 and SE will not treat it any different to regular 96/24 - ie will not display any MQA indicators nor perform any further MQA processing. But the SE speakers will handle this better than non SE speakers.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#278418 - 2018-08-10 08:41 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2017-04-17
Posts: 16
Grole Offline
Harmless
Grole Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2017-04-17
Posts: 16
Loc: Croatia
Thank Ian. It actually means that instead of the MS200 I need the 218 to get MQA, right?


SG
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#278419 - 2018-08-10 09:27 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Grole]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Europe
Currently Meridian MQA endpoints have to do the decoding themselves then pass the signal on to SE speakers for rendering, it is a closed shop, although it shouldn’t be, so you would need a 218, 808v6, 818v3 to achieve full MQA.

Regarding Roon even though it can do the initial MQA decode it would break the Meridian chain and you would not get full MQA in your system, in Roon check device setup and ensure the ‘218’ or whatever you purchase is set up as decoder and renderer, Roon should do this automatically but it is worth checking.

On the Roon forum it was said that although technically the Meridian SE speakers should be able to accept an externally (Roon) decoded MQA file it requires a fix from Meridian and that they were aware, nothing has been posted on this by Meridian.

If Meridian fix this issue then it will allow Roon users the option to apply DSP adjustments to the MQA file without breaking it by decoding in Roon applying DSP adjustments and then rendering in the SE speakers, don’t hold your breath though.


Never pass up a good chance to shut up!
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#278420 - 2018-08-10 09:55 Re: MS200 MQA Support [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2017-04-17
Posts: 16
Grole Offline
Harmless
Grole Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2017-04-17
Posts: 16
Loc: Croatia
Thanks Ratbert


SG
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