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#234833 - 2015-05-12 09:55 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2010-12-09
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Ratbert Offline
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Ratbert Offline
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That offer didn't include the subscription cry

Russ


If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish he will buy an ugly hat. And if you talk about fish to a starving man then you are a consultant.
—————————————
If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a fool about it.
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#234834 - 2015-05-12 10:09 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2002-02-14
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ncpl Offline
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Originally Posted By Gianni
I bought into Sooloos because it was a complete, integrated, end-to-end packaged solution
Absolutely right. And there will still be a significant number of current and future users exactly like that. That's why Sooloos will still be a very viable product for some time to come.

The comments thus far today just emphasise what a good situation for users this is.

Some users will stay with Sooloos server; some will use Roon.

All users here should have the good sense to use Meridian endpoints so that is a good thing for M.


Rgds,
Nick

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#234835 - 2015-05-12 10:09 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Gianni]
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Ronnie Offline
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Originally Posted By Gianni
how would you value Meridian's on-line support and their ability to access, debug and diagnose problems in their software and hardware? I think those costing elements are included in the capital outlay on a core device.

Sorry Gianni, but about the most polite thing I can say about Meridian support of their Sooloos offerings is that it's just as well that I love the sound that is produced by their variety of Endpoint!!!......I really can't be any more positive than that

To deal with your above question: Is there any evidence of Meridian actually being able to remotely "debug and diagnose problems" in their Sooloos offerings?? There are oh so many posts on here about Users' Drives failing, and never hearing anything from Meridian about those failures [either ahead of time or afterwards], despite Meridian's marketing claims to the contrary

How many users here have had Meridian connect to their Sooloos kit and remotely diagnose a problem.......as opposed to shipping the unit back to Meridian for repair??

How many Problems [Hardware & Software] are solved here by HH Members, rather than the PP's or Meridian themselves.....I would go so far as to say that Meridian and their PP's rely almost too heavily on the very supportive and knowledgeable members on here.......and I'd ask Sooloos users to consider their daily usage WITHOUT the help and guidance they receive here from HH members......with little to no contributions from HQ or their PP's [with 2 notable exceptions]

How long have Meridian taken to react and solve fairly serious issues with the Sooloos software......these have ranged from the Metadata service being down frequently and without notice......to problems with the iPad app not working properly.......to ControlXX being unable to connect to the Core etc., etc.

As for the critical processes of Backup and Restore: These processes are now so prehistoric and out-of-date that they have long passed the point of being 'fit for purpose"........IMHO anyone who relies solely on these Backup processes from Sooloos is just a time bomb waiting to go off........No Audit Trails of Files / Albums backed up.......Backups taking FAR longer than they should take.......Backups failing in the middle of a routine, with no explanation given.......Restores resulting in Deleted Albums being restored.......the list goes on.......and on

IMHO, Meridian Sooloos kit comes with a high capital outlay for what in essence are fairly standard IT items......and come with many promises of Integration & Support etc.......but IMHO, the only one that really delivered upon is the Sound Quality......and to be fair, that is delivered in Spades!!.........everything else????



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Edited by Ronnie; 2015-05-12 10:12.
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#234836 - 2015-05-12 10:29 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Gianni]
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Ronnie Offline
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Originally Posted By Gianni
Will Roon have the service support model and bandwidth to offer an equivalent service over a wide and expanding range of combinations of NAS, computer o/s and hardware, etc?

Not disagreeing with your capital investment calculations but I suggest your operational costings may not be equivalent or complete.

Roon are still a relatively unknown quantity and who knows how they will be as a company in the future

However, even a brief glance at their Roon Forum shows how much more Supportive and Responsive they have been to date.......just on a different planet compared to how Meridian have ever been in support of their Sooloos kit, whether early on in the takeover or recently

Problems are reported to Roon and responses given in MINUTES or Hours.......with Fixes issued very quickly within a week at the outside

A Meridian user, used to Meridian's less than communicative nature for the past several years cannot help but be "shocked" at the level of openness and clarity on the current issues and how long they will take to solve.......as well as openness on the "Roadmap", which helps people make decisions about what's required for the future

Everyone knows that Roon still need to prove themselves in the ongoing business reality of "many users, little resources" [which equally applies to Microsoft, Apple and Google by the way]......and only time will tell if their Subscription income is put to the best of use when it comes to a proper support infrastructure.......

However, I can say that Roon are off to a very good start in the brief period since their breakaway from Meridian......and if they can maintain that momentum and diligence, they will be a force to be reckoned with......and a company well worth supporting


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#234837 - 2015-05-12 10:37 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2003-10-04
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spinaltap Offline
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Don't hold back, Ronnie, tell us all what you really think about the Sooloos/Meridian offering whistle


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988 - Meridian owner since 1993.

Music: M6, 218, 210, 504, 506.2, AC12, SBT, LMS | B&O H8
Movies: Loewe Bild7.55, ATV4K, B&W PV-1
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#234839 - 2015-05-12 10:46 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: spinaltap]
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Ronnie Offline
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Originally Posted By Spinaltap
You quote for a 10 year overall annual Roon subscription (£1,900) compared to buying a MC200 with a MS200 (£2,500).

I suggest that if buying the new Sooloos system that you don't need the MS200. That makes for a more equatable comparison. With a typical negotiated 10% discount on the Meridian option then I would rather pay £1,800 to own Sooloos outright.

Even so, one would need to factor in the cost of an iPad to control the MC200.

Sorry Spinaltap, but again the above comment would not necessarily be true

Most who have compared, will confirm that the use of an MS200 is required with an MC200 to achieve the level of CD replay that they may be used to from Meridian CD players

And equally, as Roon provides an "Exclusive Mode" in the software, which obfuscates the impact of the Windows and OSX OS's have on Audio quality.......then the output from a Macmini or NUC digital output equipped with Roon will very much approximate the output from the digital outputs of the the MC200.......so if a user is happy with that, then no MS200 is required in either case........and the MS200 cost would come off BOTH sides of the above comparison chart

As to your point of wanting to own the kit "outright", then the fairest comparison is the £1,400 for the Hardware plus Roon Lifetime Subscription, rather than the 10-Year amortized cost of the £1,900 option........indeed in this case [and specifically in your circumstances as I understand them] Roon would cost £1,400 to own "outright", while a new Sooloos option would cost £2,250.........assuming you would plan to use one of your existing Mac's to run Roon, thereby reducing the Roon related cost even further

And even all of the above assumes that using Roon on a daily basis is the same as using Sooloos.......and as I think will become very clear to many over the next week, Roon has MANY more UI advantages over Sooloos in daily usage......and IMHO is worth the £90 per annum subscription [or however a user chooses to pay]


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#234842 - 2015-05-12 10:56 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2010-12-09
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Ratbert Offline
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Originally Posted By Spinaltap
Don't hold back, Ronnie, tell us all what you really think about the Sooloos/Meridian offering whistle
I think Ronnie is voicing opinions that many hold but have not expressed?

Cheers

Russ


If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish he will buy an ugly hat. And if you talk about fish to a starving man then you are a consultant.
—————————————
If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a fool about it.
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#234843 - 2015-05-12 11:04 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: spinaltap]
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Ronnie Offline
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Don't hold back Spinaltap, take each point in turn and please explain where you think I'm mistaken??

And to Russ's point, many of these same issues have already been raised with Meridian personnel directly on several occasions in the past... and I would hope that shining a light on them here might bring a more appropriate response from Meridian as to how they plan to support Sooloos in the future.


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#234844 - 2015-05-12 11:14 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,532
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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I was watching and reading some of the political commentary following the UK election last week. One comment jumped out at me when an analyst pointed out the success of those MP's that actively engaged with their constituents via email, blog, FB, Twitter etc. Adult dialogue.

This wasn't about advertising or selling. It was about dealing with issues. There are examples of those that didn't engage who didn't succeed in the votes.

I was struck by the parallel to the impact that good comms can have in this crazy world of hi-fi. As noted above (and many times elsewhere) it is only speculation, frustration and negativity that fills the voids.

The dialogue has started well on the Roon forum. Even if the answers to the questions raised are "No", or "No because..." or "possibly later" the effect is clear to see. The void is avoided (excuse that one).

Sorry to steer a bit OT but there is something here that I hope the right folks understand.


Rgds,
Nick

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#234845 - 2015-05-12 11:15 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,532
ncpl Offline
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ncpl Offline

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Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,532
Loc: Surrey, UK
Ronnie, I think you are spot on to call it out.

Thanks.


Rgds,
Nick

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#234846 - 2015-05-12 11:15 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2006-11-08
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dpstjp Offline
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Ronnie,

I would rework your annual subscription numbers for Roon. You have to assume some level of inflation to do it on a Discounted Csh Flow basis to even up the purchase outright versus rent discrepancy. Of course you then have to assume Roon survives, if they don't that precious track level metadata is going to take a shed load of personal work that you need to price in.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#234847 - 2015-05-12 11:23 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2001-01-08
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Ronnie Offline
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Ronnie Offline
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The chart was prepared to make the costs easier to compare... I didn't want to confuse by adding in such factors ... and there were several other assumptions I had to make as well about the equipment that people already had... and the size of their libraries etc.

I'm sure many here can prepare costs that are more specific to themselves and make the best comparison of the options.


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