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#233746 - 2015-04-17 21:07 How Much Will Roon Cost?
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,796
Ratbert Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ratbert Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,796
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: AltusLiceor
Anyone know how much Roon will cost? Are we are the JRiver end of the spectrum?
Suggested around 100 per year but nothing confirmed?

Russ


If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish he will buy an ugly hat. And if you talk about fish to a starving man then you are a consultant.
—————————————
If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a fool about it.
Edited by Carl; 2015-04-18 04:47. Edit Reason: Split out to Roon forum
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#233748 - 2015-04-17 21:47 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,165
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,165
Loc: Ireland
Ha!Ha!

It'll be the shortest-lived product launch/crash if that's the true cost. That's almost half a year of Tidal and they supply the music too!

~M~


Mostly harmless. Comfortably numb.
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#233750 - 2015-04-17 21:52 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Meridialien]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,796
Ratbert Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ratbert Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,796
Loc: Europe
M

Sooloos 3 was apparently always going to be a subscription model, I guess the cost would have been similar?

Russ


If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish he will buy an ugly hat. And if you talk about fish to a starving man then you are a consultant.
—————————————
If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a fool about it.
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#233753 - 2015-04-17 22:22 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Meridialien]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,487
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,487
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Originally Posted By: Meridialien
It'll be the shortest-lived product launch/crash if that's the true cost. That's almost half a year of Tidal and they supply the music too!
New Roon hardware + 5 years of subscription = less then entry level Sooloos Core 2nd hand. It works out at better value if you cost in 2 more endpoints.

Cheers
Tom


Main: G61 SL, 218 HD621, 2* 7200SE, 5200HC, DSW,3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 5200s, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#233754 - 2015-04-17 22:26 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,502
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,502
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
And that's why. Meridians 'Standard' Sooloos interface will survive.

1. It works well and is easy to use

2. No subscription fees, a turnkey solution with Tidal and MQA integration.

Now if you want more and are computer literate, Roon is your next option, only Meridian don't have to do all the upkeep and development that will be expected for 100 a year (ish) subscription.

Makes sense to me. Chris smile


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best:
GIK monster bass panels, rear wall. QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into DSP5200SE via 218 zone... Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2, Mini & Flex. 596v1, 518, Foxsat HD, Sony BDP, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos. F80

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#233761 - 2015-04-17 23:42 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,487
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,487
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
OK - But say :

1) Roon is easy to use

2) There is an option to buy a lifetime subscription (there is) and its sold on pre-configured equipment (not yet!)

Lots of us moved from Meridian CD players to Squeezebox before Sooloos. This situation reminds me of the operating system OS/2 which was originally developed by Microsoft and IBM.

Originally Posted By: Wikipedia
The collaboration between IBM and Microsoft unravelled in 1990, between the releases of Windows 3.0 and OS/2 1.3. During this time, Windows 3.0 became a tremendous success, selling millions of copies in its first year.Much of its success was because Windows 3.0 (along with MS-DOS) was bundled with most new computers. OS/2, on the other hand, was only available as an expensive stand-alone software package. In addition, OS/2 lacked device drivers for many common devices such as printers, particularly non-IBM hardware. Windows, on the other hand, supported a much larger variety of hardware. The increasing popularity of Windows prompted Microsoft to shift its development focus from cooperating on OS/2 with IBM to building its own business based on Windows)
Cheers
Tom



Main: G61 SL, 218 HD621, 2* 7200SE, 5200HC, DSW,3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 5200s, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#233762 - 2015-04-17 23:50 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 639
Richard W Offline
Paranoid android
Richard W Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 639
Loc: North of Scotland
Originally Posted By: Meridialien
It'll be the shortest-lived product launch/crash if that's the true cost. That's almost half a year of Tidal and they supply the music too!
I've already made it clear I'm a miserly skinflint so you shouldn't be surprised I agree.

Originally Posted By: GMT
New Roon hardware + 5 years of subscription = less then entry level Sooloos Core 2nd hand. It works out at better value if you cost in 2 more endpoints.
In which case why did we ever buy Sooloos kit and not stick with Squeezeboxes or JRiver on our laptops? I always thought it was the Audio Quality. The clever design of the kit to reproduce high quality sound without the mush of the computer getting in the way. Is this suddenly not required?

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#233763 - 2015-04-17 23:50 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2015-04-05
Posts: 22
Danny Offline
Roon Labs Founder & CTO Harmless
Danny Offline
Roon Labs Founder & CTO
Harmless

Registered: 2015-04-05
Posts: 22
Loc: NYC, USA & Paris, France
Yah, the price is not released yet, but it'll be around the cost of a sandwich and a coffee a month, charged annually. Something very affordable, but it won't be "app" pricing. Our product will be best-of-class for data and sound quality. Our value is in the fact that we are premium at every stage. Think Photoshop, not MS Paint.

We are going after customers that range from college students to you guys with insane hardware budgets. We are shooting for something around $100/yr or so.

For that price you will get an extremely flexible media server solution that works in various topologies, streams directly to top audio hardware without quality compromise, and gives you depth and breadth of metadata like you've never seen before. Your carefully groomed collections will still be useful, but will be utterly transformed by the additional data[1][2]. We have that much metadata. At the same time, it wont feel like an encyclopedia, like allmusic.com does. Instead, it's a fun and educational experience all the way. It'll be usable by your kids, your spouses, and it'll keep you engaged too. On the sound quality side, we are working with the best of the best. You know his name, but I can't say it just yet. ;-)

If you haven't already, check out the sneak peaks at http://roonlabs.com/ and the conversation at http://community.roonlabs.com/


So still, why not 99 cents?

Well, first, we license the best and unfortunately, the most expensive data out there, to build the best metadata service in the world. We are also adding to this service all the time, with more and more sources. Some data we build, some we buy, some we hire to build.

And with Roon, your metadata is updated constantly. As we add new sources users will see the benefits live in their collection. Any grooming that's done is stored in the database seperately, so we're able to continually update the underlying data without interfering with your edits[1][2]. This is unlike anything else out there. Composers who die will show death dates, and artists will have updated photos as they age. Reviews will rewrite themselves to stay relevant over the years, as will the relationships between artists and their collaborative efforts.

We are also starting a user-generated metadata service as well, so you guys can contribute your experitise back to each other.

Our cloud services will also sync and save your edits, playlists, play history, and more... and I'm sure this will someday turn into the basis of a fully cloud based Roon offering.

Then you look at services we integrate with, like Tidal. Our Tidal integration takes their music, and does something awesome with it. We love their audio quality and the span of their library, but using their service still feels likes everything else. We've basically had to rebuild their backend databases on our side, so that our Tidal integration feels like Roon, and not a bolt-on. If you used the Rhapsody + Sooloos stuff my team did in the past, you know what I mean.

When we were doing hardware years ago, bundling these prices weren't a problem. Not just because we used fewer (and cheaper) data sources, but because the price of the hardware was more than high enough to give us wiggle room in our margin structure. This is obviously not the case any more, as we arent selling $8,000 boxes.

So, given all the above, plus much more I didn't talk about, we came up with a annual price that allows us to cover our costs, grow the offering, and make some amount of profit so we can continue to reinvest into our business.

That said, many people have asked for a single shot lifetime membership, so we are looking at that as well. Sorry, but I dont have a ballpark price for that yet.

Hopefully all this can be resolved in the next few weeks since we have to launch next month!

1: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/importing-content-from-meridian-sooloos-systems/205
2: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/leveraging-existing-metadata-in-audio-files/210


Roon
Edited by Danny; 2015-04-17 23:52.
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#233764 - 2015-04-17 23:51 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2004-08-19
Posts: 200
NeilF Offline
Hitchhiker
NeilF Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2004-08-19
Posts: 200
Loc: Tideswell, UK
I think the lifetime subscription option could be key.

I know software companies are all trying to move to a software as a service annual subscription model, but I must admit it really irks me.

In the world of accountancy/payroll software, a substantial initial investment used to give you an application you could use for years, perhaps with some user-updateable screens for legislation parameters etc.

Those days have gone, and now they expect you to pay the original price and then some, each and every year, justifying that with the annual addition of new bloatware features which you will never use...

If the lifetime sub offer for Roon is anything like a reasonable price, then that is definitely the way I will go, and from the teasers and extensive information they have shared to date, I reckon it's going to be a bazzer!

Couple that with the astonishing MQA SQ most of us have now experienced, and our listening will have been completely revolutionised.

I can't wait smile

Neil


Main listening room - DSP5200SE
Satellite(!) listening room - DSP3200, AC200, 818v3, 500, 504, MC200, Humax Foxsat HDR (for recording radio), Slingbox Solo
Townshend Elite Rock Turntable, Nakamichi RX-202E Cassette (for old times' sake)
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#233766 - 2015-04-18 00:02 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: NeilF]
Registered: 2004-08-19
Posts: 200
NeilF Offline
Hitchhiker
NeilF Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2004-08-19
Posts: 200
Loc: Tideswell, UK
Actually, when I say it irks me, what I really mean is I resent paying annual subscriptions for something I used to be able to purchase as a one off, on the basis of providing me with functionality I didn't ask for, don't want and probably won't ever use...

... but I can see it makes perfect sense for a product like Roon. And tbh, an annual fee of $100 sounds okay to me, if it really is as good as we think it's going to be, and (crucial this one) if $100 doesn't puzzlingly equate to 100 for us UK customers. mad

But I will still probably go lifetime tho' if I can afford it!

Neil


Main listening room - DSP5200SE
Satellite(!) listening room - DSP3200, AC200, 818v3, 500, 504, MC200, Humax Foxsat HDR (for recording radio), Slingbox Solo
Townshend Elite Rock Turntable, Nakamichi RX-202E Cassette (for old times' sake)
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#233767 - 2015-04-18 00:21 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: Richard W]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,487
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,487
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Quote:
In which case why did we ever buy Sooloos kit and not stick with Squeezeboxes or J River on our laptops? I always thought it was the Audio Quality. The clever design of the kit to reproduce high quality sound without the mush of the computer getting in the way. Is this suddenly not required?
I didn't buy a Sooloos Core (but was close to on a number of occasions). Here are some possible answers to your question.

1) We love Meridian hardware (we can still use this with Roon).

2) People liked the extra software features that it provided over Squeezebox and Sonos (I think Roon will provide a wider feature set then Sooloos).

3) The perception that there wasn't a computer involved (there was).

4) Some people liked having a large dedicated touch screen.

If you believe what is being stated, the audio quality won't change with Roon.

Cheers
Tom


Main: G61 SL, 218 HD621, 2* 7200SE, 5200HC, DSW,3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 5200s, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#233769 - 2015-04-18 00:26 Re: How Much Will Roon Cost? [Re: NeilF]
Registered: 2015-04-05
Posts: 22
Danny Offline
Roon Labs Founder & CTO Harmless
Danny Offline
Roon Labs Founder & CTO
Harmless

Registered: 2015-04-05
Posts: 22
Loc: NYC, USA & Paris, France
I have no inside information here, but I fear the /$ issue might have to do with pricing differences by music labels.

I do have some experience with the pricing contracts of the music labels, but in this case, I'm just speculating.

Roon won't have this issue.


Roon
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