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#233338 - 2015-04-11 12:32 Importing Sooloos into Roon
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,775
Ratbert Online sleepy
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Online sleepy
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,775
Loc: Europe
Hi All

Some good information on importing your Sooloos library into Roon

Cheers

Russ


If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish he will buy an ugly hat. And if you talk about fish to a starving man then you are a consultant.
—————————————
If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a fool about it.
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#233363 - 2015-04-11 22:53 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2010-01-24
Posts: 767
Altus Offline
Paranoid android
Altus Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-01-24
Posts: 767
Loc: Midlands, UK
Fantastic. Love the open nature of the system and the scope for enhanced metadata, and the ability to list by surname rather than first name - great for classical. Let's hope M license Roon and enable the kit to interface with it.


Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP869 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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#233368 - 2015-04-11 23:55 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Altus]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,782
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
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Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
I hope that there are custom tools/well documented procedures to import Sooloos into Roon otherwise without these Roon may struggle with the odd file structure format used by Sooloos if importing directly from the Sooloos NAS store.

Also, are there any limitations with Roon library size? One of the features of Sooloos was its ability to handle large collections very fast on very modest hardware. I know there are some people with very large Sooloos collections.


Meridian owner since 1992
Prime & PSU, Focal Elear headphones, roon (ROCK 8Gi5 Nuc), Explorer 1 & 2, F80. 200/203, MC200 and various Sonos.
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#233369 - 2015-04-12 00:13 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi Ian,

On the Roon forum, it was stated that the Sooloos lib needs exporting first, inorder for the files to contain as much metadata as possible.

Then Roon is pointed at the export, rather than pointing it directly at the Sooloos lib.
In effect the export becomes the Roon library.

If there is anything pertinent missing in the export, like import date, play count, user tags, ... then yes a migration tool would be essential.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#233370 - 2015-04-12 00:19 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Altus]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By: AltusLiceor
Let's hope M license Roon and enable the kit to interface with it.
Hi,

Roon already supports streaming to Meridian endpoints, so that's covered.
What's not so clear yet is:

A) Can Roon run as a "headless" core on say MD600, MC600 or MC200?
B) Can Roon run on a C10/C15
C) Would Meridian allow it.

My personal view based on the hardware discussions in the Room forum is
With additional memory fitted.
#A Yes.
#B Yes, but with some compromise on touch screen navigation, may need new OS.
#C Pass.

There is also the question of how to update endpoint firmware without if a Sooloos Core in the system.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#233371 - 2015-04-12 00:51 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,867
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure
Gianni Offline
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Registered: 2001-05-23
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Loc: North London, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Carl
Then Roon is pointed at the export, rather than pointing it directly at the Sooloos lib.
In effect the export becomes the Roon library.
So what would be the point of an MC200/MD600 at all in this scenario?

And how would one benefit from the Sooloos exact-rip correction on import as presumably one is just expected to rip in FLAC or whatever to the external store? That of course takes us back to having to understand and manage directory structures, etc. which loses a key advantage of Sooloos.


"Wonderful perfect quadraphonic sound with distortion levels so low as to make a brave man weep" - Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz of the Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council
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#233372 - 2015-04-12 01:14 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Carl Offline
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Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi,

I guess it's about personal choice, that's why Roon should be viewed as an alternative to Sooloos not a direct replacement.

BTW Sooloos only uses 'exact audio copy', on ripping not importing files. If files are ripped externally with say dBpoweramp then it has the responsability to ensure the quality of the rip from CD not Sooloos.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#233373 - 2015-04-12 01:16 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,782
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
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Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Ok. So say you have a 2TB library on an MD600.

You do an export to an additional 2TB drive. So, 4TB total. Is this export the same as a Sooloos backup or in addition to?

Now, from this export, you do a Roon input, which needs a further 2TB drive. So 3x the initial Sooloos storage requirements? Plus an additional NAS enclosure or the 2TB drive/partition to reside on some PC local storage.

Which as Gianni says, leaves a redundant Sooloos MD600 store that, unless it is modified to not run Sooloos (something that Meridian control), cannot be used as the NAS.

Plus a backup of the Roon library.

So, a 2TB Sooloos library, turns into a 8TB/10TB requirement of which 4TB (original and backup) is redundant Sooloos store (which may be needed if users want to revert to Sooloos), 2Tb is Roon library, 2TB is Roon library backup and 2TB was temporarily used for Sooloos export which the user may have wanted to keep (in case Roon import wanted to be run more than once) or reused as the Roon backup disc.

Which by my calcs is 8/10TB rather than the 4TB with backup requirement with Sooloos? Assuming that user wants the option of reverting to Soloos or selling their store as a fully loaded solution.


Meridian owner since 1992
Prime & PSU, Focal Elear headphones, roon (ROCK 8Gi5 Nuc), Explorer 1 & 2, F80. 200/203, MC200 and various Sonos.
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#233374 - 2015-04-12 01:20 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,496
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
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Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,496
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
Do you mean TB?


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best:
GIK monster bass panels, rear wall. QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into DSP5200SE via 218 zone... (Thanks Russ) Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596v1, 518, Foxsat HD, Sony BDP, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
My F80 is in repair...
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#233375 - 2015-04-12 01:34 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,048
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
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Posts: 4,048
Loc: London, England
I don't think a Sooloos backup would work for Roon, since the files seem to be a proprietary format (ie not .FLAC). I think you still need to keep the backup since an export of Sooloos cannot be used to restore without significant headaches re metadata.

A Sooloos export would work, but can't you just point the Roon server to the SMB path of your MD600? It depends whether Roon is destructive as far as file structure or naming/tagging is concerned. If it isn't you can revert back to Sooloos, in much the same way that Squeezebox can be pointed to a Sooloos store without harming the integrity of the Sooloos system.

It will be interesting to see whether the Sooloos endpoints can be used in a dual Sooloos/Roon system. My guess is they can, it's the "Why would you want to?" that I haven't fully thought through yet.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
Edited by dpstjp; 2015-04-12 01:36.
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#233376 - 2015-04-12 01:44 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
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Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By: Ian
... Now, from this export, you do a Roon input, which needs a further 2GB drive.
Or just point Roon at that export and use that storage device ... user choice again.

What I don't think works so well is just pointing Roon directly at the Sooloos library files, hence the discussion of exporting from it (on the Roon forum).

So assuming Sooloos and Roon can't share the same lib this not unexpectedly gives:
Sooloos 2TB lib + 2TB backup.
Roon 2TB + lib 2TB backup

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#233377 - 2015-04-12 01:44 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2013-01-17
Posts: 245
Roving Gecko Offline
Hitchhiker
Roving Gecko Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-01-17
Posts: 245
Loc: Limmen, Netherlands
I think you have the following options:
1) Keeping using Sooloos (with MQA coming up and potentially other stuff Meridian will build out)

2) Full switch to Roon. Which means new hardware (i.e. a NUC with large SSD storage or a NAS). You do an export of your Sooloos store to the new NAS\Roon device and let Roon do the metadata match, reverting to manual (=old Sooloos) if needed.

3) Add Roon next to Sooloos. This can be fully dual, so basically 1 & 2, or a hybrid. In the latter case you let Roon access the Sooloos data store.
I suspect that success level depends on how you added your FLACs to Sooloos. If you did this with i.e. dBpoweramp then potentially Roon can get enough intel. out of the files to make a decent auto match. If it was all done by Sooloos it might get hard, Roon wont be able to access the Sooloos metadata.
For some of us, lucky to have chosen an outside ripping and metadata augmentation process, it will probably work quite well.

4) Add Roon an convert Sooloos core/store to a NAS like device.
For this you would expect all your music temporarily off the Sooloos store. Onto i.e. a NAS or loose HDD.
You then empty the Sooloos store.
And access its disk space remotely through an SMB share:
"smb://SOOLOOS_IP_HERE/music"

You can read/write on it just fine.
You move the export into a new directory (lets call it Roon).
And have Roon access it over the SMB share.

Personally, I don't see any benefits in 3 and 4. 3 can be a migration step\safeguard while Roon matures. 4 seems an expensive way to create NAS storage.


Meridian G68 AXV, HD621 | Cinepro 2k6mk5 | 4x Scanspeak A4 monitors, center & 26W Sub | RPi Hifiberry digi+ | Roon
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#233378 - 2015-04-12 01:51 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By: dpstjp
I don't think a Sooloos backup would work for Roon, since the files seem to be a proprietary format (i.e. not .flac).
Actually the music files themselves are FLAC, WAV, MP3 etc.

Have a look in:
http://<CoreIP:9080/Sooloos/music2/album/00/xx/...

However, Sooloos does not maintain its metadata in the FLAC, so the files only have the metadata they had when they were ripped.

If this was by Sooloos there'll be next to none, hence this notion that an export may be required to use them with with Roon.

However, if ripped by say dBpoweramp then I suspect Roon would be fine to identify them as is (of course any Sooloos metadata is still ignored).

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#233379 - 2015-04-12 02:17 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Roving Gecko]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,782
Ian Offline
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Ian Offline
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Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
[removed until i find reference to this info]

On subject of grooming, with many Sooloos (and other music library users) putting much effort in grooming metadata to their liking, it sounds like Roon will ignore most of this and potentially inflict its view of the world without a user possibly wanting that view presented in the Roon way unless the user goes through another round of metadata grooming.


Meridian owner since 1992
Prime & PSU, Focal Elear headphones, roon (ROCK 8Gi5 Nuc), Explorer 1 & 2, F80. 200/203, MC200 and various Sonos.
Edited by Ian; 2015-04-12 13:40. Edit Reason: Makes no sense without link
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#233380 - 2015-04-12 02:47 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,048
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
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Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,048
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Carl
Originally Posted By: dpstjp
I don't think a Sooloos backup would work for Roon, since the files seem to be a proprietary format (i.e. not .flac).
Actually the music files themselves are FLAC, WAV, MP3 etc.

Have a look in:
http://<CoreIP:9080/Sooloos/music2/album/00/xx/...
Carl,

I'm well aware of what the files look like in the Sooloos system, thank you. Have a look at the backup of a Sooloos library. All music files end with ".backupdata" which I suspect Roon might struggle with.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#233383 - 2015-04-12 02:55 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,928
Loc: Central England, UK
Sorry my bad, I'm missed that you were discussing a backup set, my focus was on being able to use (or not) the library itself.


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200.2, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#233385 - 2015-04-12 03:06 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
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Posts: 4,122
Loc: UK
Just for the record, Sonos and a few other Music Apps recognize and play the .Backupdata files created by a Sooloos backup

The file names & extensions are changed.... But they are not transcoded or changed in any way.... and the ID3 Tags are still populated by Metadata from the original rip

Not that I'm recommending this as a solution.... I still think a full export from Sooloos is the way to go... As this will create the typical Artist / Album / Track structure that is much more user friendly for future use


-
Edited by Ronnie; 2015-04-12 04:16.
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#233387 - 2015-04-12 04:06 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,048
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
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Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,048
Loc: London, England
I suspected they weren't transcoded, thanks for confirming Ronnie.

Can you imagine how long a backup would take if if wasn't just a straight rename?

Sadly I fear a full export is going to cause a greater divergence (track level versus album level metadata not withstanding) of metadata than one might wish. I think we're all going to have to make a choice about which way to jump. Two sets of grooming is one too many.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#233388 - 2015-04-12 04:07 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,775
Ratbert Online sleepy
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Online sleepy
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,775
Loc: Europe
Ronnie

Agreed, export currently in progress.

Russ


If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish he will buy an ugly hat. And if you talk about fish to a starving man then you are a consultant.
—————————————
If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a fool about it.
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#233389 - 2015-04-12 04:14 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2014-07-22
Posts: 73
Hectorson Offline
Mostly harmless
Hectorson Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2014-07-22
Posts: 73
Loc: Northampton, UK
+1 for streaming then! From the perspective of a very nearly Sooloos customer.


Roon on NUC
Main: MS600 --> 5k 96/24.
Bedroom: SBT --> DSP33 with ROON API volume control
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#233442 - 2015-04-13 01:54 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Hectorson]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,920
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,920
Loc: Norwich, UK
Originally Posted By: Hectorson
+1 for streaming then! From the perspective of a very nearly Sooloos customer.
Haha, exactly what I was thinking.

I just can't be bothered to rip CDs.


No Darling, I've had it months!
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#237938 - 2015-07-21 08:25 Re: Importing Sooloos into Roon [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2015-06-29
Posts: 195
BengTi Offline
Hitchhiker
BengTi Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2015-06-29
Posts: 195
Loc: Singapore
Hi Ian

Thanks for this useful comparative I was looking at it in another thread. Though this is true, I guess it is only a worry for us Sooloos owners, and anyone starting afresh now would just convert the collection to a generic NAS and out Roon on top of that out to the M DSPs ? In that case, the amount of storage required drops significantly. Do you see any other drawback ?

Thanks and Best /bt


Zone 1: DSP5200SEs, 818v3, Sooloos MC200 (1 Master, 1 Slave), Samsung LED 55" TV and Bluray
Zone 2: F80, MS200
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