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#204151 - 2014-01-05 06:16 Re: New tweeters **** [Re: CalenW]
Registered: 2003-08-01
Posts: 982
Mudge Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Mudge Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2003-08-01
Posts: 982
Loc: Surrey Hills, UK
I'm sure there was a note from his holiness Bob about tweeters. Something about selecting one with the most neutral presentation, smoothest off axis response and freedom from resonance & breakup.
Other manufacturers use carefully selected 'cheap' tweeters to great effect.


Mark
G68, baby Genelecs, Humax Foxsat, Oppo+Vanity93, Toshiba HD-A35, Pioneer CLD-925 + Meridian 519, various other random bits and bobs
Got a black G08.2 you want to sell?
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#204152 - 2014-01-05 06:57 Re: New tweeters [Re: Mudge]
Registered: 2013-10-25
Posts: 99
CalenW Offline
Hitchhiker
CalenW Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-10-25
Posts: 99
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Well, he definitely found that in the H539 and H1212 to a large degree. No disagreement there. Though, I wonder what a set of beryllium tweeters would sound like in the 5k's? Added air and bite to brass instruments, or total brackish nonsense?


Everything is boxed up for the next 4 months.
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#204153 - 2014-01-05 07:13 Re: New tweeters [Re: Mudge]
Registered: 2008-04-26
Posts: 109
Thymanst Offline
Hitchhiker
Thymanst Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2008-04-26
Posts: 109
Loc: Naples, Florida USA
There's more to Meridian speakers than $50 tweeters - think about the technology in the 5500's - 4 drivers with an amp driving each, a built in pre-amp and DAC's - heavy duty cabs and a lighted display - all of it selected, R&D to work together in a cohesive presentation. You have to also build in manufacturer and dealer profit otherwise they would cease to exist - what it cost to also manufacture the parts? Seas is able to sell the tweeters at a reasonable price thru economies of scale.

Another big point is because of the internets ability to share information we are aware of replacements and issues that effect our gear - this info was not available for mass consumption when my 5500's were first built.


1. 568.2mm & 3xDSP5500 2. 565/562 & DSP5000's 3. Director & 568.1 & Edge Amp & Klipschorns
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#204154 - 2014-01-05 07:18 Re: New tweeters [Re: CalenW]
Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,718
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,718
Loc: North London, United Kingdom
A Nautilus tweeter is about £50 for the B&W 802N (I blew one once). The diamond tweeter for the 802D is >£1000 IIRC. Most reviews seem to prefer the Diamonds because the treble is apparently "sweeter". Certainly, in my experience, the 802Ns could be a little harsh from time to time but still performed very well with the "cheap" tweeter.

I suspect Meridian put considerable effort into maximising their tweeter's performance by using DSP and digital cross-overs.


Wonderful perfect quadraphonic sound with distortion levels so low as to make a brave man weep smile
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#204155 - 2014-01-05 09:37 Re: New tweeters [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2013-10-25
Posts: 99
CalenW Offline
Hitchhiker
CalenW Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-10-25
Posts: 99
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Absolutely, the "D" version is what I was referring to in my price comparison.

So my wife laughed at me when I shared what I was writing in this forum with her. She says, "You complained incessantly about the $2500 to replace one catalytic convertor in the BMW and then you are DISAPPOINTED when a tweeter only costs $50 to replace?" I guess she's right, there is no pleasing some people.

I'll stop second guessing Meridian now.


Everything is boxed up for the next 4 months.
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#204156 - 2014-01-05 10:07 Re: New tweeters [Re: CalenW]
Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 443
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 443
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I am not sure it is the ferrofluid that goes bad, so the replacement fluid "experiment" will be very interesting.

The standard silver dome tweeter has a polymer around the dome, that I suspected goes bad over time.


Theater: G68, G98DH, DSP6k, DSP55kC, SW1600x2, DSP55k, Plasma, (Zone 2)
Living room: DSP5k, DSP52kC, SW1600, G68, Sooloos MC600 (Zone 1)
Bedroom: M80
office: SACD, 861v4, DSP6k (Zone 3)
Storage: P350Ws, G55s, M33s, DSP33s, DSP5k, 501, 518, 561
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#204167 - 2014-01-05 19:58 Re: New tweeters [Re: Jdb-si]
Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 750
Mtns Offline
Paranoid android
Mtns Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 750
Loc: North Carolina, USA
A couple of years ago I decided to replace the tweeters in my 6ks and three 5.5ks. I made this decision as the 6ks and center 5.5 were purchased used, and the 5.5k I used at the rears were purchased in 1998. I assumed this had to be a good move as I had already decided to treat myself to a full day of Marc Koval coming up to NC from Atlanta and tweaking my stuff. I bought the tweeters from my Florida dealer at "dealer cost" in consideration of my prior purchase history.

Less than a year later, I purchased used 8ks and asked Marc if I needed to replace the tweeters to ensure that the output/performance was the same as the ones he had recently installed. I was informed that any output discrepancy would be taken care of by DSP adjustment, and the tweeters were identical up and down the line.

He said at the time that other than "blowing out" or physical abuse, that the other problem over time was the fluid would "dry up". The "new tweeters" are by the same maker(SEAS) and were selected based on their sonic match with the prior model.


James
NC1: 861v4+ID40, 218, MS200 (to outdoors), DSP8000SE (upgraded). 5500VC, 5500s, Hsu Research ULS15x2, DirecTV, Oppo BD103, QNAP251, Roon
NC2-see FL 2 with Triad Silver Speakers

FL1: G61R, 218, DSP8000SEs, 5500HC, DSP6000s, MS600, DirecTv, Oppo BD103, QNAP469, Roon
FL2: Marantz 7005, M60s, M60C, M33s, Oppo BDP-93, MS200, Roon
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#204193 - 2014-01-06 00:37 Re: New tweeters [Re: Mtns]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,259
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,259
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
This is a quote from an article interview with Bob Stuart on Duncan's site, by the Huffington Post. It is concerned with the (cheap) tweeter concern.
Originally Posted By: Bob Stuart
Nowadays itís quite common Ė people are used to Apple making nice looking products, and you expect a degree of design. But back then there was nothing. Audio didnít look special. Weíve always tried to synthesise designs where the appearance and the function are together.

In other words, form follows function and everything we do in the appearance thereís a reason for it, and everything we do on the inside thereís a reason for it. So we wouldnít make a cynical product like that.

You might make a headphone out of a particular material to give it the right mass or to make it look attractive. Thatís okay but to overcharge because the cable is made of Kevlar is nothing to do with the sound. In fact itís quite likely to destroy the sound if itís got the wrong dielectric. Like in anything, expensive doesnít mean good.
Chris smile


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#204634 - 2014-01-10 18:51 Re: New tweeters [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2004-08-06
Posts: 1,309
MacGuy Offline
Working on the ultimate question
MacGuy Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-08-06
Posts: 1,309
Loc: New York, USA
I wonder how the audio would have sounded in Apple products if Steve Jobs had been a Meridian fan? cool


Arcam850, Oppo 203 4k, Sony PS3 & Sony VW285ES Native 4k PJ. 55" Samsung UHD 8500 4k in the bedroom.

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#204734 - 2014-01-11 21:14 Re: New tweeters [Re: MacGuy]
Registered: 2008-04-26
Posts: 109
Thymanst Offline
Hitchhiker
Thymanst Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2008-04-26
Posts: 109
Loc: Naples, Florida USA
OK, I got the ferrofluid from parts express and had time this morning to recharge the old tweeters - the first one I did was stuck when I pulled the tweeter face off from the magnet assembly I ruined the voice coil - the second two came apart very easily - I was also surprised that looking at the tweeters 2 of them are h715's and the other is a h539 so Meridian used different tweeters in the speakers (DSP5500's) -

One of the tweeters I pulled apart had very little fluid in it compared to the other - it was also thicker - the kit from parts express comes with blotters to take up the fluid in the magnetic gap - the ferrofluid goes in super easy - just cut the end and put it in the gap and it sucks right into the gap.

I've been playing my 5500's with the h1212 replacements in them and they sound amazing now, better than the other I speakers I have - I don't detect any abnormalities to the sound - the air, and transparently is there now.

I'm going to put the original tweeters back in the speakers later today to see if they now sound as good as the h1212

Looking at the tweeter upon taking it apart I don't see anything that is super special about it that would be different from a replacement (h1212) especially if the electrical plot is comparable - sound wise they are a ton better than the old originals...


1. 568.2mm & 3xDSP5500 2. 565/562 & DSP5000's 3. Director & 568.1 & Edge Amp & Klipschorns
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#204778 - 2014-01-12 05:37 Re: New tweeters [Re: Thymanst]
Registered: 2014-01-10
Posts: 1
Deandome Offline
Harmless
Deandome Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2014-01-10
Posts: 1
Loc: Libertyville, IL, USA
[first post!] laugh

I, too am kinda shocked to see a $50 tweeter in such an expensive speaker. But seeing that I'm going to be looking out for used DSP5200s as I assemble my system, maybe that's a good thing.

But if you're still put off, just wait for the new SE speakers. The Beryllium tweeters will be $400-500 a pop... minimum. But something tells me people will be lining up to upgrade to them.

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#204876 - 2014-01-13 06:19 Re: New tweeters [Re: Deandome]
Registered: 2005-11-18
Posts: 156
Sam Edwards Offline
Hitchhiker
Sam Edwards Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2005-11-18
Posts: 156
Loc: Santa Monica, CA, USA
I just put the Seas speakers from Madisound in my three DSP5k fronts and it's a very noticeable improvement. The air is back! The front pair dates from the '90ies and is a upgraded from 18bit. The center is less noticeable after doing doing the front pair, but it's more recent, from about 2000 and was purchased as a 96/24.


I was able to cut a second slot for the second connector on the tweeter and they lay absolutely flat.

This would be a several thousand dollar upgrade in Meridian dollars. I think I'll order two more for the rears, even though they're even more recent.

Thanks everybody!


G61R, DSP5200HC 2x DSP5000 (96/24) upgraded tweeters, 2x DSP3100 Rears, HD621, Oppo UDP203, MC200. Happy!
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