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#201100 - 2013-11-18 06:03 Re: New tweeters **** [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,619
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,619
Loc: Austria, Europe
Thanks Bruce for your fast/good info.
I didn't catch that you installed the other original tweeters.

I only found a datasheet of the h0537_25tafcd with a aluminium diaphragm but no datasheet from yours/original what have a fabric or paper diaphragm.
I just want to check the datasheets that was the reason to ask for the original numbers.

As far as I remember there was a discussion that M maybe replaced the tweeter on the 8k. I don't mean the millenium version DSP - so a close up from the front is maybe helpfull to identify it.

Also the material or a close up picture from the diaphragm would be nice.

I have one DSP with a very low serial number (below 10) and compared to the other in the 200 range I can't see any difference on my tweeter without disassembling, which I don't like to do (yet).

Thanks again for your info.

Robert


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#201102 - 2013-11-18 06:14 Re: New tweeters [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,391
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,391
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
They look exactly the same, black domes. The model/part# tag is exactly the same minus the date code ( I assume ) 04/00 old 05/13 new. Box reads "DSP speaker black tweeter part code PA10537 Genuine Meridian spare part"


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Theta Digital Cassablanca 4, 218, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Revel F228be, Revel B112, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Shunyata Denali 6000S, Alpha power cables, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Mark Levinson No515 Turntable

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#201122 - 2013-11-18 14:19 Re: New tweeters [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 660
Rodney Gold Offline
Paranoid android
Rodney Gold Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 660
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
I have a lot of experience with Meridian tweeters , I think their OEM one could be a slightly customized one but it's a Seas H539.

The Meridian OEM tweeters are not amongst the best you can get today, and I feel that the top end speakers should have got a better driver. I understand Meridians rationale for NOT changing them.

I think the tweeters on these speakers are a weak point, the damage tends to be the voice coil separating from the dome, not always fully or resulting in a dead tweeter, but in a tweeter that is down on power and has a slight resonance or buzz at some freqs. some just die...

I like a +1.5 to 2 dB treble tilt and like to listen at lifelike levels, it seems the tweeters don't like that as much as I do, so I have a box of dead ones...

The Excel is exceptional and it handles the power that the OEM one does not - there is a match electronically, the H1212 which measures and sounds exactly like the OEM H539.

The H1212 is NOT a straight drop in, it has 4 holes rather than 6, so you will have to redrill the mounting holes and make a pocket (same as Excel) on the inner flange of the tweeter rebate to accomodate the 180 degree terminal arrangement.

The Excel needs a flange trim and some slight surgery to the inner lip of the tweeter flange on the baffle as in the H1212 - which is not visible from the front. (This is a little more of a mission.)

At any rate, using any of these does not in any way make the speakers sound like anything other than Meridian's - you have a calibration setup in the DSP speakers that actually "should" be done when replacing tweeters as this changes the gross overall level of the tweeter to take into account manufacturing variances in the OEM ones. I have never had the need to do it.

The Excel tweeter is superb, the Meridian's lose a little of the hashiness and harshness that they tend to with the metal tweeter, the excel actually measures better further up than the OEM and sounds a lot "purer", there is no loss of detail at all and as I said, there is no departure from the Meridian house sound, no change in imaging and no change in soundstage depth or width and no change in terms of timbral accuracy; just a more reliable tweeter. I have never had one fail. The flange itself is way better than the plastic ones.

There is a tweak if you want a little more upper treble bite out of the original tweeters, and that is to remove the meshes which are held in magnetically and with a dab of sealant or glue, just be careful doing this (they have to be prised out) as it's so easy to damage the dome.

When changing tweeters, you really need to be careful of the gasket used, I laser cut myself new ones out of foam. Reusing the old ones, especially with the plastic horned H539 and H1212 is not advised. The horns on these actually develop a resonance if the old gasket is used as it's normally so compressed it does not act like an isolation gasket anymore.

If you have any angst about using replacements or feel that you want to stick 100% to what you got, by all means use the NOS OEM stock or Meridian replacements.
ALWAYS replace them as a pair...

The use of non OEM replacements is a totally reversible mod thus if you want to sell the speakers at a later stage, you can just plonk in the originals.


Roon/Tidal, SBT, Trinnov ST2 , Twin Devialet D premiers, Vivid Audio Giya G1 Spirits, dedicated and treated room.
Meridian gear: 568.2mm and DSP5000's acting as TV speakers.
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#201127 - 2013-11-18 14:59 Re: New tweeters [Re: Rodney Gold]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,619
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,619
Loc: Austria, Europe
Thanks Rodney for all your info.

You write the original tweeter is the H0539 and bruce say the originals are H1054?

But both speakers are not listed on the SEAS sides beside that you and Bruce should have the same number/tweeter?

Also your H1212 is also not listed, only H1211 and H1213 but both are from the vintage "prestige" series not from the "excel" series beside that both have a 27mm voice coil and not a 25 voice coil as the originals.

Can you please help me here?


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#201143 - 2013-11-18 16:53 Re: New tweeters [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 660
Rodney Gold Offline
Paranoid android
Rodney Gold Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 660
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
The 8000 series might have a new product number for the tweeter - I only have experience with DSP6000's and below.

The H1212 is here Seas H1212.

I found the specs for the H539 somewhere but can no longer find them...

The non milennium Excel is the one I recommend - but you need to take the flange down (any one with a lathe can do it) and make a notch for the 180 degree terminals to fit it...

Not sure if I had a set of 8000's if I would mess with them though, older speakers yep.


Roon/Tidal, SBT, Trinnov ST2 , Twin Devialet D premiers, Vivid Audio Giya G1 Spirits, dedicated and treated room.
Meridian gear: 568.2mm and DSP5000's acting as TV speakers.
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#201282 - 2013-11-19 16:17 Re: New tweeters [Re: Rodney Gold]
Registered: 2003-03-17
Posts: 430
Robbo Offline
Paranoid android
Robbo Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2003-03-17
Posts: 430
Loc: The Netherlands
Any idea what tweeters are used for the DSP7200.2 ?


G68J, HD621, ...
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#201788 - 2013-11-24 10:26 Re: New tweeters [Re: Rodney Gold]
Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 443
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 443
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted By: Rodney Gold
The 8000 series might have a new product number for the tweeter - I only have experience with DSP6000's and below.

The H1212 is here Seas H1212.

I found the specs for the H539 somewhere but can no longer find them...

The non milennium Excel is the one I recommend - but you need to take the flange down (any one with a lathe can do it) and make a notch for the 180 degree terminals to fit it...

Not sure if I had a set of 8000's if I would mess with them though, older speakers yep.


Hi Rodney,

Wanted to get your thoughts on the millennium excel- I seemed to recall a while back several folks were recommending this one over the H1212. Why do you recommend against the millennium excel?


Theater: G68, G98DH, DSP6k, DSP55kC, SW1600x2, DSP55k, Plasma, (Zone 2)
Living room: DSP5k, DSP52kC, SW1600, G68, Sooloos MC600 (Zone 1)
Bedroom: M80
office: SACD, 861v4, DSP6k (Zone 3)
Storage: P350Ws, G55s, M33s, DSP33s, DSP5k, 501, 518, 561
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#201789 - 2013-11-24 13:15 Re: New tweeters [Re: Jdb-si]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 660
Rodney Gold Offline
Paranoid android
Rodney Gold Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 660
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
The millenium is not as an exact electronic match for the OEM tweeters, it's less sensitive for one so it's not really a direct replacement.

You can however, do a calibration on the speaker to raise the overall tweeter level by 1-2 dB. (which is not the same as using treble on the remote) to compensate.

It is a marginally "better" tweeter, I have used it elsewhere compared to non milenniums (Linkwitz Orions and some other builds) but it is not really worth double the price of the Non Millenniums as the differences in sonics were very small.


Roon/Tidal, SBT, Trinnov ST2 , Twin Devialet D premiers, Vivid Audio Giya G1 Spirits, dedicated and treated room.
Meridian gear: 568.2mm and DSP5000's acting as TV speakers.
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#201803 - 2013-11-24 19:48 Re: New tweeters [Re: Rodney Gold]
Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 443
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android
Jdb-si Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-04-20
Posts: 443
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Thanks Rodney.


Theater: G68, G98DH, DSP6k, DSP55kC, SW1600x2, DSP55k, Plasma, (Zone 2)
Living room: DSP5k, DSP52kC, SW1600, G68, Sooloos MC600 (Zone 1)
Bedroom: M80
office: SACD, 861v4, DSP6k (Zone 3)
Storage: P350Ws, G55s, M33s, DSP33s, DSP5k, 501, 518, 561
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#203465 - 2013-12-25 05:56 Re: New tweeters [Re: Rodney Gold]
Registered: 2013-10-25
Posts: 99
CalenW Offline
Hitchhiker
CalenW Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-10-25
Posts: 99
Loc: Tucson, AZ
I wanted to throw in my recent experience for those doing a future search in the forum and find this thread.

I followed Rodney's recommendation and purchased a set of Seas H1212 to replace a very tired set of original tweeters in a set of DSP5000's (18bit). The original tweeters needed the treble to be maxed out to sound almost normal, so it was time for a new set. The H1212's cost $105 shipped from Madrisound.

The original tweeters are easily removed with a torx wrench and a soldering gun. The new tweeters required a little wood work. First I had to file down the opposite side of terminal indent since the H1212 has 180 terminals rather than side by side. It required about a centimeter indent to fit the tweeters in. Also, I needed to drill new mounting holes because the H1212 has 4 mounting screws rather than 6. They look fine when finished.

Caveats:
The H1212's need very thick mounting tape to be flush mount with the speaker front baffle. However, the tweeter diaphragm is about 4mm forward of the original dome, so mounting it deep into the baffle, you get about 3mm of that back. This way you avoid any time alignment concerns (though 4mm is arguably inaudible).

The sound:
I have read the different schools of thought about replacing the tweeters with non-Meridian sourced ones. I fully acknowledge the likelihood that DSP equalization was put into place for the H539 tweeters that would not match the H1212. If there is, it is completely inaudible to me. After breaking the H1212's in, they sound EXACTLY like the original tweeters still in my DSP5000.3's. I even put one H1212 DSP5000 as the left channel and the H539 DSP5000.3 on the right and it was transparent. Your system may be more revealing than mine, but I have a room of medium size with sound treatment, so it is not a complete slouch. I've been listening to them as my main speakers for a few weeks now and haven't found any variation in the sound from the fresh H539's of my DSP5k.3's.

Your room and ears may have different results, but I am satisfied with my cheap and easy fix to some old speakers.


Everything is boxed up for the next 4 months.
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#203554 - 2013-12-28 00:44 Re: New tweeters [Re: Robbo]
Registered: 2003-08-30
Posts: 152
Marcoro Offline
Hitchhiker
Marcoro Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2003-08-30
Posts: 152
Loc: Utrecht, Netherlands

The 7200.2 uses the H1612-04 tweeter.
Upgrade was done today, sounds great!


861v8, MC200, MD600, MS600, HD621, Oppo BDP-93, Roku 4, DSP7200.2, DSP7200.2HC, DSP430, ML Descent, F80
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#203845 - 2013-12-31 21:03 Re: New tweeters [Re: Marcoro]
Registered: 2008-04-26
Posts: 109
Thymanst Offline
Hitchhiker
Thymanst Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2008-04-26
Posts: 109
Loc: Naples, Florida USA
After replacing the tweeters in some DSP420's and hearing how wonderful they sounded and reading calenw's successful use of new tweeters, I ordered 3 Seas H1212 tweeters from madisound for my DSP5500's (mark 1's so they are about 15 years old) they should be here Thursday or Friday.

Right now I'm doing some critical listening to the 5500's pre tweeter switch and the highs seem to missing the last bit of shimmer and air - the mids and bass are spot on, but the upper frequencies seem to be slight less balanced with them.

Calenw, before you replaced tweeters could you tell the highs were rolled off?

I guess I should also ask forum members who have 5500's if the high frequencies are more like the highs on other Meridian speakers (I have the DSP420s to compare to, highs were more prominent but of course the bass was not a strength of this speaker).

Of course I'll keep the original tweeters around to include if I ever sell them.


1. 568.2mm & 3xDSP5500 2. 565/562 & DSP5000's 3. Director & 568.1 & Edge Amp & Klipschorns
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