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#197190 - 2013-09-20 02:09 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: Frank]
Registered: 2006-03-15
Posts: 799
Dolf Offline
Paranoid android
Dolf Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2006-03-15
Posts: 799
Loc: Victoria BC, Canada / Maui
I have bitten my tongue for many years now on my disdain of M's marketing folly, but I am going to break my silence to give my heartfelt profound compliment to the moderators.

Many years ago I was directly involved with a problem with a reseller on the forum. I received a personal insight on the amount of work and the difficulty of that work that the moderators do: selfishly and without reward, for our benefit.

Secondly with M's decision to cut themselves off from their customers and make the obtaining of required support a maze for the majority of us who don't live next to a PP, the moderators have had to do the best job that they could for us HH'ers, while publicly working within M's policy. Being muzzled and not able to share on the forum the restraints they have to work under and compromises that they have to make has to be gut wrenching for the moderators.

I am unabashedly defensive and supportive of the moderators. Without this forum I would find it impossible to be a M owner.

Sure, I am pissed with M's marketing, and I don't doubt that this latest change is another step backwards for us, but I am absolutely positive that the moderators are choosing the lesser of the evils, to give us the best possible forum, given the impossible job that they have to work with M. And I believe that they cannot publicly defend their decision.

So mods, delete my post, close this thread, do whatever you have to do in our best interest and THANK YOU MODS!


Home: DSP8000's, DSP5500HC, DSP5200's, 861v6>v8+ID41, MC200, HD621.
Oppo BDP-83, Kuro PDP-6020FD, Sennheiser HD650.
Hawaii: Meridian F80 with i80, iPod Classic 160GB.
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#197193 - 2013-09-20 02:37 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: Frank]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,905
Loc: Norwich, UK
I hope that Reuben goes on to start up a website to sell used M gear in a similar style that Lifestyle-AV sells pre owned B&O.

Speaking to Reuben he said that all his sales over the last 12 months have been through the forum, only a few have gone on eBay and they only go on there when he is prepaired to take a loss on it.

It has been said that Premium Partners felt Reuben was selling 'new' gear for a price they couldn't compete with. However, he has only ever had a couple of new items and they were bought from dealers clearing stock or when a customer had bought something and then changed their mind before installing them. He said he has a pair of 3200s that were taken in after they had sat there for a year and then the customer bought some 5200s. Literally a handful of 'new' pieces over the two years since he shut up his furniture business to do the used Meridian venture.

The forum was his business, and I genuinely feel gutted for the guy. The first thing he knew about it was logging in and seeing all the posts deleted.
He doesn't sell elsewhere and there was no notice given.
I think a months notice would have been nice to give him time to get a website up and running and some SEO sorted out. Just to give himself a chance.
Reuben is Reuben, he is not bitter, he is not moaning he is just gutted and a bit worried. 99% of his business was done through the forum and he was just about making living from it, but enjoyed it, so all this about selling through other avenues is a bit unfair imho.

Having someone who will pay top dollar for used kit and make a small margin on it is essential, without someone like that the start of the Meridian journey is so much harder, being able to buy a used centre to go with your new 5200s and G68 can make all the difference, it is the difference between being able to afford it and not.

If you look at the margins on new Meridian gear you will never get a good used price from an official dealer, why would they pay someone nearly the same price for a pair of 4 years old used 5200s as they can pay for a pair of new ones? Of course they won't.
I saw the purchase invoice for my 5200s, and it seemed like a fair margin for a dealer when you consider the overheads of running a retail store, but also then understood why they suggested selling my 5000s to Reuben as they simply couldn't offer anywhere near what he was willing to pay.
They were happy as they still got a sale, Reuben was happy as he got more stock and I was happy as I got a good price for a hassle free sale and could get my new 5200s in the front room same day. laugh



I have to say I lost heart with Meridian as a company last year. A pair of 5200s I bought were DOA and they had them for a month, the dealer wouldn't even lend me used F80 they had while they were away, and at that time I was using them in my TV room with a plasma panel, no other sound, not even built in so I was without TV for a month, well I would have been. Reuben actually lent me a pair of DSPs for the time they were away.


Then when I had an issue with a buzzing driver on really deep bass notes they would not send me a new driver, insisted on me sending the speaker in to them, even though swapping it over was a two minute job. I suggested me driving the speaker over and then picking it up later that day, they were not interested.
I managed to source one else where in the end.

I had decided that maybe Meridian wasn't for me.

But then when they started to talk a bit more, allow for communications through the website again I got a bit more excited and thought they had seen sense, that talking to their customers was a good thing.

Then all this.

I have just sold my last bit of M kit today, I am left with a single F80 and that is it. Time to have a play with some other bits for a while.
I know I will be back and I will still dip into the forum as there are some interesting and fun folk on here, and I really hope that the changes work out well. But the way things were done has left a sour taste, to me the forum was always somewhere to get technical advice and to discuss all things M, positive and negative, looking now it seems those negative thoughts might not be quite as openly accepted. Which is a real shame.





No Darling, I've had it months!
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#197279 - 2013-09-21 20:13 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: gIzzE]
Registered: 2012-09-16
Posts: 496
Huw Online content
Paranoid android
Huw Online content
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-09-16
Posts: 496
Loc: Farnham Surrey, UK
Firstly I am not a professional PR person, but I am reasonably well versed in marketing in the B2B sector.

This debacle seems to have served nobody well so far and some have been badly damaged. Reuben has come out as the good guy ( which he is) and the other parties varying degrees of damage to their Brand -a key value in retail marketing.

Perversely the airing of the responses resulting from this initiative have given the opportunity for HHs to express their opinions about Meridian's poor marketing even worse customer service (including tech support). I guess neither of these were unknown to most owners, but the Forum's announcement has provided the opportunity to express once again these negative views... I am sure that was not the Moderators intended effect. Similarly the Premium Partners with the exception of Rick have also received criticism - also presumably the opposite of their wishes. Overall then an exceptionally bad piece of PR.

Curiously but perhaps predictably not a single comment from Meridian, and I think also not the Premium Partners. Maybe they are all still wondering how to dig them selves out of this (unintentional) PR mess.

Finally a subjective observation ... I have the feeling that with exception of this thread , the Forum has gone very quiet. Posts in all sectors seem rather less than usual... Cause and effect who knows? But something is amiss.

Best regards from a fervent Forum supporter,
Huw


Room1 MS600, G61RSL, HD621, 7K, 5KHC (96/24), 5K (96/24), SW1600, Panasonic plasma, Sony BRD PS3, Humax, M7 Dutch decoder.
Room2 C15, AC200 MS200, 5K2SE, iDock.
Room3 562v, 565, 504, 5Ks & 5KHC 18 bit, MS200, TwinStore, Explorer1, Arcam Solo, Systemdek I920, Ortofon M520. QNAP
Room4 Panasonic 4K LED, Canton DM75 .
Room5 F80, iDock, Explorer 2
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#197281 - 2013-09-21 20:35 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: Huw]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,590
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,590
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Quote:
I have the feeling that with exception of this thread , the Forum has gone very quiet. Posts in all sectors seem rather less than usual
Oddly I've been feeling this for a little while. I don't have any evidence, but to me the forum feels quieter & possibly less inclusive than it used to. However, I've only logged ~ 400 posts in 2 years or so which means I'm not best placed to comment. Perhaps the Top Posters would have a better feel for this?


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL Gibraltar 2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#197282 - 2013-09-21 20:50 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: gIzzE]
Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 602
Rolski Online sick
Paranoid android
Rolski Online sick
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 602
Loc: Cologne, DE & Cheltenham, UK.
I've not been active on the forum for some time now - have been in China - an experience which I've now put safely behind me (!) - but I'd like to add to & reinforce the thanks and respect to Duncan for selflessly "hosting" the site and to the Moderators for similarly putting in a lot of effort from which we all benefit.

This "development" has struck me as a little curious, and I've personally benefited from advice from several independent dealers on this site - which has proved invaluable. This advice has not led to a sale with any of the parties in question, but has undoubtedly led to some significant purchases.

My question, which I don't believe has yet been raised, is - if Meridian & their Premium Partners have suddenly decided they'd like a forum - why don't they put the effort into getting / building / hosting their own?

Thoughts / comments...
wink


Meridian : 861v8 + ID41 + UHD722 + 218 + 251, 2*SE-update DSP8.2K's, SE-update DSP7200HC. Roon + i7 NUC.
TAG McLaren : DVD32R-PSM192, T32R+DAB, 100x5R:10. B&W : 4*SCMS. Logitech : Squeezebox Touches & Duets.
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#197283 - 2013-09-21 21:01 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: Rolski]
Registered: 2011-02-17
Posts: 1,797
MB Offline
Knows where his towel is
MB Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2011-02-17
Posts: 1,797
Loc: Winchester, Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted By: Rolski
My question, which I don't believe has yet been raised, is - if Meridian & their Premium Partners have suddenly decided they'd like a forum - why don't they put the effort into getting their own?
Nobody would play as we all use this one? We/The Mods do a great job?

Also I don't find the forum quiet lately really. I occasionally click on the "who's on line" link, see what others are reading about (does that make me sad/nosey?). Looking at some of the subject categories people are reading (old ones) leads me into older and interesting parts of the forum which only a good delve would reveal, I guess its a form of swim?


Bits and pieces
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#197284 - 2013-09-21 21:07 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: Huw]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,252
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,252
Loc: Midlands, UK
To paraphrase your post in a nutshell.
Inclusion at any level always beats exclusion, from all points of view.
Inclusion will be creative and add value, exclusion is always negative, except if and when legal boundaries have been crossed.

Previous ús recently spent 68% PP 32% (Rueben) Independent (and only because the 5200s were Orange)

Hope this PR accident can be resolved amicably.
Hector


AV: Thorens TD160B, SME, ShureV15MK2, 500, 598, 861v4, DSP7200.1LR, DSP3300HC Samsung UE55, SkyHD.
DINING: MS600, AC200, DSP5200SLLR.
STUDY 504, SB Touch, 2x MD600, C15, 808.6, 5200SE, Mac & PC, Explorer v1, Prime+PS Grado GS1000i
HORIZONTAL: M80, MS200, Red Rose Spirit + Sonus Faber Toys
A capella to Zydeco
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#197285 - 2013-09-21 21:20 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: Huw]
Registered: 2011-02-17
Posts: 1,797
MB Offline
Knows where his towel is
MB Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2011-02-17
Posts: 1,797
Loc: Winchester, Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted By: Huw
Perversely the airing of the responses resulting from this initiative have given the opportunity for HHs to express their opinions about Meridian's poor marketing even worse customer service (including tech support). I guess neither of these were unknown to most owners, but the Forum's announcement has provided the opportunity to express once again these negative views... I am sure that was not the Moderators intended effect. Similarly the Premium Partners with the exception of Rick have also received criticism - also presumably the opposite of their wishes. Overall then an exceptionally bad piece of PR.
It could be seen as an opportunity to clear the air. Meridian chose to concentrate on making and not directly selling in order to stay in business, being a small volume brand I'm sure they couldn't sustain too much support activity. I prefer Meridian in business but with a less than perfect customer service than having gone down the pan.

As I understand it, they chose to become a luxury brand, selling to that market via glossy magazines, boutique shops, product placement and in rich markets like China/Asia/Russia. We're not going to keep the factory going. Add the car audio (hope that proves profitable but good for the luxury branding) and then the fast growing media streaming market (Explorer/Director) and hopefully things are looking bright(er).

I see our small corner of the market as literally that, not a biggy for M in the big scheme of things but I think they really love us and have gone to some lengths to respond to the situation.

Residual values are tricky though. How's that for an understatement.



Bits and pieces
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#197287 - 2013-09-21 21:39 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: MB]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,000
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,000
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Tintin
Nobody would play as we all use this one? We/The Mods do a great job?
I think that people may migrate fairly quickly if M really set their mind to it. MPC Club used to host a Zappiti forum. This died very rapidly once Zappiti started to provide their own English forum.

Of course Zappiti is software based, so most folks move onto the latest version fairly quickly. Hardware like M's lasts a while longer, so perhaps an official M forum would struggle to help those of us running older vintage kit.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#197288 - 2013-09-21 21:53 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: MB]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,885
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is
3dit0r Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,885
Loc: South UK
I'm only just aware of this, and I must say it's leaving a very nasty taste in my mouth. While greater involvement with Meridian might be a good thing, the way this has been done with a complete ban on certain sellers who, as far as I'm aware have never done anything wrong, seems counter to the spirit of any forum.

As many here, I have dealt with PP (Rick) and independent sellers (Reuben) and both have been excellent. Reuben honoured a warranty on an 808.2 I bought from him, but the repair was done through Meridian themselves, so it wasn't as though they were even losing s/h repair revenue. Without him, I wouldn't have bought into 800 series gear at all, and would not have then upgraded (via Rick, a PP) to a new 818/MC200, so I'm not sure what Meridian's beef is here.

As regards PPs, well they kind of sorted themselves on the forum in a survival of the keenest already, didn't they? Those such as Rick and a few others who are active and hugely valuable members, I'm sure reaped the benefits of their involvement. To those who didn't bother, how is this going to change their approach (in fact won't removing the competition make it more likely they will be even less likely to put any effort in)?

The oddest thing, I think, is that Reuben and other respected sellers are no longer even allowed to list in the private sales section, or just in a sub-forum for independent sellers of 'good reputation', distinct from PP selling forum? What is the reason for not allowing this?

Regardless of the specifics of individuals, though, there's something distasteful about it, which I can't quite put my finger on - as has been hinted, there is more to this we are not privvy to yet, but whether that is actually a good thing or not remains to be seen...

[Edit: Thinking about this a little more fully, it seems to me if Meridian wish to win over more customers, or score more highly on customer service/satisfaction, there are frankly more pressing concerns they could deal with than banning a few independent dealers from a forum they have an interest in?

Case in point, there is still, as far as I'm aware, no per-track artist capability in Sooloos, despite endless complaining on the forum, and I'm sure in other places. Let's talk straight here - Sooloos is *not* cheap, it is at the highest end of premium product for its type, and is marketed as a hugely powerful music organisational tool. Well, I'm sorry, but without this basic functionality, it's not. It needs this kind of thing sorting on a priority, and then continuing basis, end of. Even iTunes, which is essentially free has it for goodness' sake.

If I recall, there was also a case of not sorting the Control:PC woes of a certain reviewer, who, up to the point where he had that issue was one of Sooloos' most public proponents and doubtless won Meridian many sales - what's the sense in that? If memory serves, the addendum to the review went up on the site, and doubtless put some potential customers off.

Also, is it just me, or do elements of the GUI on the iPhone Sooloos app still not appear natively designed for a retina screen? Even 'bedroom' programmers manage to do this kind of upgrade in short order, and as the retina display has been with us since 2010, that's a little behind the curve, guys? I hope very much if Meridian are going to be more involved at the expense of other aspects of the forum, they will be taking these concerns and feedback much more seriously and actually doing something about them?]


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-105, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Kimber Mains Cables, Russ Andrews Torlyte Equipment Rack and Mains Filtration, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Edited by 3dit0r; 2013-09-21 23:04. Edit Reason: Rant.
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#197326 - 2013-09-22 04:59 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2009-06-25
Posts: 855
DuncanBudd Offline
Pan-dimensional being
DuncanBudd Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2009-06-25
Posts: 855
Loc: West London, UK
My feeling - again, without hard evidence - is that it has been getting progressively quieter since the split a couple of years ago into multiple forums. When there were just two or three (from memory?) it seemed busier.

The flip side is that with a smaller number of forums, threads got pushed off the first page *very* quickly. So, I'm not saying that the split was wrong in addressing this, but perhaps it has had unintended consequences.

Would be interesting to see the number of posts per years (which used to be easily readable from front screen archives).

(Another) Duncan

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#197328 - 2013-09-22 05:42 Re: Discussion: A brief notice regarding recent forum changes [Re: DuncanBudd]
Registered: 2012-09-16
Posts: 496
Huw Online content
Paranoid android
Huw Online content
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-09-16
Posts: 496
Loc: Farnham Surrey, UK
Come on Meridian , we are waiting for your response , it's an open invitation, what's keeping you?
Regards Huw


Room1 MS600, G61RSL, HD621, 7K, 5KHC (96/24), 5K (96/24), SW1600, Panasonic plasma, Sony BRD PS3, Humax, M7 Dutch decoder.
Room2 C15, AC200 MS200, 5K2SE, iDock.
Room3 562v, 565, 504, 5Ks & 5KHC 18 bit, MS200, TwinStore, Explorer1, Arcam Solo, Systemdek I920, Ortofon M520. QNAP
Room4 Panasonic 4K LED, Canton DM75 .
Room5 F80, iDock, Explorer 2
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