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#191957 - 2013-06-17 01:19 Re: iOS 7 [Re: DrOne]
Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 908
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 908
Loc: New York, NY, USA
Originally Posted By: DrOne
iOS - about 93% are using the latest version of iOS 6.

Android -

4.2.x - 4%
4.1.x - 29%
4.0.x - 25.6%
2.3.3 - 2.3.7 - 36.4%
2.2 - 3.2%

So, still most Android users are still using Gingerbread, and only 4% of the Android market are actually running the latest OS.
I am not sure I get the point of your post. Doesn't this suggest that end users are content with older versions of the Android OS while Apple users are not. That or Apple forces the upgrade.

Just so we are clear, my household owns an iPhone 5, iPad along with Google Nexus 4 and 7.


Primary: MD600, MS200 (SpeakerLink to AES), Trinnov ST-2, Ayre V6-xe, Salk SS8 3x LRC.
Secondary: MC600 (whole house).
Zone one: 568.2, G57, MS200, Spatial Hologram M2SE.
Zone 2-6 (Awaiting assignment).
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#191959 - 2013-06-17 03:08 Re: iOS 7 [Re: Yetis]
Registered: 2010-12-03
Posts: 413
DrOne Offline
Paranoid android
DrOne Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-12-03
Posts: 413
Loc: Sacramento, California, USA
What happens is on several levels. First, the mfg of mobile device such as these take what Google releases and they modify it to suit their own specific model products and they are predominately selling products with older OSs. That's what is selling. Each Android maker, forces you to choose a product based on the OS it ships with. If/when Google releases a new version OS, each mfg decide which devices they are going to update and for cellular based products, they have to get clearance from each cellular carrier. So, as an example. Let's say Samsung released the S3 last year with version 4.0.x OS. When Google releases ANY updates past the OS they originally shipped with, Samsung has to decide to take the update, do the modifications for that specific product and then they have to get cellular carrier clearances and THEN it gets released to the user community. This takes about 5 or 6 months, sometimes even longer between when Google releases a 4.0.x or a 4.1.x update. Buy the time the consumer gets that one update, Google might have one or two or more updates after that. The latest version is 4.2.2. There are only a couple of smartphones that actually ship with 4.2.2. Obviously anything recently shipping Nexus, but most Android phones and tablets sold aren't Nexus, they are brand and model specific. So the user may or may never actually be running the latest and greatest OS, unless someone releases a product that ships with it and they always get the latest and great product from XYZ mfg. This kind of forces those that want the latest Android OS to only get Nexus products, but they don't always have the same feature set as a non-Nexus product since companies like Samsung, HTC, etc., are putting special features that are not in the Nexus product. So from a consistency standpoint, there is very little. Plus, due to the cheap smartphones selling in various countries, those cheap smartphones are generally Gingerbread or older OS versions running on older and cheaper hardware. It's just the nature of the Android market.

Now, with Apple, most people WANT to upgrade to the latest version because of additional features. Forcing people to upgrade? Well, typically speaking, a new OS version is going to have more features than a previous version. And since Apple's model is different, they release it, and then people install it fairly shortly after the public release date. This helps keep people consistent to what they are using, it also helps Apple support them better because they are now pretty much dealing with one version for 93% of their install base, so the people managing the Support calls are focused more on one version OS, rather than 5. It also helps the OS developers at Apple focus in fixing problems with 1 OS, rather than several and whatever new major release they are always working on. It drives down support costs for the Enterprise customers since it minimizes how many different OS flavors they have to support, which drives down support costs.

Then the developer community only has to test their apps and hardware to work on the later OS versions rather than having to test on 5 or more different OS releases on a ton of different hardware. Developers time is precious and the less they have to deal with, the more they can focus on new apps or new features rather than constantly testing and writing code to support all of the products running God knows how many different OSs.

Fragmentation for OS developer is costly, doesn't give the consumer a clear direction of what is going on if the company has a lot of OS fragmentation. People hear the word Android, but every product on the store's shelves that you have to choose from don't use the same version and flavor. It confuses the customer. Microsoft is also going through a similar fragmentation due to XP, Vista, 7, 8, RT, Professional versus Home edition, etc. etc. This increases Microsoft support costs, a PC mfg support costs, a enterprise customer's support costs if they start implementing a new OS and have lots of different versions of desktop OS. Especially when you get into custom apps, and lots of employees. Think about the nightmare a company will go through when they have 100,000+ employees around the world using various standard apps and custom apps on a variety of hardware that may or may not be adequate to run the latest OS? That's why Enterprise customers that get past a certain size are VERY careful in implementing a new OS. Microsoft, still has to support all of these different flavors and they have to have a TON of engineers writing code for security reasons, or fixing bugs, even if they don't even sell that version any more. That drives up Microsoft's over head, yet they have to do it.

Some people don't understand, some don't care about fragmentation, but it's not good to have it whenever possible for all parties involved. Microsoft would love to have 93% of their users on the latest OS version within a year after announcement. Same with anyone that makes an OS, it just makes life much easier.

I'm not going to tell you which one is better or worse, in terms of which OS, because everyone has pros and cons. So, that's not the point. The point is what fragmentation is and how it affects the OS developer, the app developers, individuals and Enterprise customers.

Obviously, I might have left out a couple of things here are there, but that's pretty much explains much of what fragmentation is and how too much isn't a good thing for anyone.

I wouldn't say FORCING the upgrade by any mfg. It's just that these OSs, regardless who makes it will have interim minor updates to fix bugs, security issues, and it's always a good idea to update. Major updates are optional, but they typically will have more features that people want and then the apps get updated to work with the new features and APIs that are released. With major releases of an OS, they might decide to completely change the GUI from a design standpoint. From how it looks with iOS 7? It's a drastic design difference, some people love it, some people don't care either way and some people still want the same look, but once you get past the 3D icons to the flat icons, you'll probably forget all about the older OS. The features and design of how things work is a LOT better. They did a nice job with it, and yeah, some icons might not be our preferred look, but it's just an icon. But, the clock actually tells the time rather than a static clock. so you see the second hand move as well. I think that's useful.

if you have checked out the iOS 7 update, it's cool. While I wouldn't recommend upgrading until the final release, they are doing some pretty cool things underneath the visible layer and the features they offer. I saw it running on a friend of mine that works at Apple and right off the bat he likes it a LOT. he deals with this stuff daily. But, it's STILL not finished and there will be new builds that may change stability issues, maybe some design issues, etc., but what I saw and what he told me, it looks like it will be really cool update and it's free, so it doesn't cost anything to update, it just hopefully will make it better once we get used to the differences. But "forcing" people? Well, the app developers take advantage of these new APIs, and the apps will hopefully get better as well. With OS developers, like Apple, or Microsoft or Google, they might integrate features that might have required a third party app. So, this reduces the apps we actually need.

While a developer might get a little upset, sometimes they are actually paid to use a feature they have if there is an actual patent that can't be worked around. Apple, for instance, has gone to some app developers that had patents and actually bought the app from the developer so they could integrate features they held patents on, so the developer can make a substantial amount of money. if the feature isn't patentable, then Apple or whom ever can add that feature to the OS making it integrated. yeah, I know some developers might get a little peeved by this, but if the feature is patented, then they might be able to get recourse if there is an actual violation. Sometimes they can work around the patent and sometimes not. Example, Apple added the flashlight feature that a lot of third party apps have, but that's not a patented feature, so Apple decided it was useful enough, easy enough to add and now we'll have a flash light feature built into the OS rather than having to deal with third party apps. Google does the same thing, as does Microsoft


Trust me, Steve Ballmer would have a permanent erection if he could get 93% of the WIndows install base to use the latest version OS within 1 year of being released. It's not going to happen, and everyone knows it. I think WIndows 8 is about 5% of the Windows installed base that's the latest information that I have.


565, 562V, 518, DSP5500, DSP5000C, Misc analog for rear channels, Talon 12 in sub
Edited by DrOne; 2013-06-17 05:33. Edit Reason: added comment
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#191964 - 2013-06-17 04:56 Re: iOS 7 [Re: DrOne]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Loc: UK
Dear Lordie, I sure do hope that nobody here is taking ANY of this Propaganda as being in any way factual

Cherry Picking certain stats and then bending them to suit your argument does not make for a very factual or representative argument

Maybe someday soon we'll see a Meridian equipment related post from you rather than the non-stop Apple Propaganda we've all seen for well over a year now!!


-
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#191966 - 2013-06-17 05:31 Re: iOS 7 [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2010-12-03
Posts: 413
DrOne Offline
Paranoid android
DrOne Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-12-03
Posts: 413
Loc: Sacramento, California, USA
I think you might be misinterpreting the numbers. They are not total market share, they are market share within the platform in terms of what version users are using. The numbers for Android came from Comscore and their numbers are from June 3, 2013, so that's about the most detailed and most recent I can find, but it's just within the Android platform.

Sorry if you don't like it, but those are the most recent percentages.

I can't help it. I didn't make the percentages up. OK?

Some Market research is based on combining 4.1.x and 4.2.x into Jelly Bean. My source separates those two out as such.

if you have more recent info, let me know, as everyone knows there are updates to these numbers all of the time, but mine are what I'm told the most recent and most detailed percentages.


So don't read them. You have the right to read my posts. IF you have something to add that's factual, let's hear it.

Oh, I didn't start this thread, I'm just responding to someone that posted a response to one of my comments.

What are you trying to do? Discredit me because you don't like Apple? Tell me your side on fragmentation. Do you think it's positive from all perspectives?


565, 562V, 518, DSP5500, DSP5000C, Misc analog for rear channels, Talon 12 in sub
Edited by Carl; 2013-06-17 06:46. Edit Reason: PM sent.
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#191968 - 2013-06-17 06:36 Re: iOS 7 [Re: DrOne]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Loc: UK
Really can't be bothered to have this discussion on an Audio Equipment site, so I'll just ask a few Rhetorical questions.

You've cited the stats used by Apple at WWDC last Monday which state that iOS 6 is used on 93% of Apple Devices.

The iPad 1 was first released only 3 short years ago (April 2010) and accounts for 26% of all iPads sold... yet the iPad cannot run any flavour of iOS 6!

Likewise the iPad 2 represents 38% of all iPads sold... and yet the iPad 2 cannot run the highly touted features of iOS 6 like Siri or Facetime 3G.

Very similar arguments can be made about the iPhone, the iPhone 3G and 3GS... yet they can't run iOS 6 either... as most versions of the iPod Touches cannot.

With all of these Devices that cannot run iOS 6 at all, how is it that 93% of all Apple Devices run the latest version of iOS?

And yet you and Apple choose to use Android stats for ALL Android devices ever sold.

Like I said, Cherry Picking of certain Market Stats and mis-comparing them with different stats for a competitor does not make for a representative or factual argument.


-
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#191973 - 2013-06-17 07:17 Re: iOS 7 [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 908
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 908
Loc: New York, NY, USA
My lord.




Note, this is the off topic section.


Primary: MD600, MS200 (SpeakerLink to AES), Trinnov ST-2, Ayre V6-xe, Salk SS8 3x LRC.
Secondary: MC600 (whole house).
Zone one: 568.2, G57, MS200, Spatial Hologram M2SE.
Zone 2-6 (Awaiting assignment).
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#191980 - 2013-06-17 14:22 Re: iOS 7 [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2001-08-11
Posts: 1,712
MalcolmW Offline
Knows where his towel is
MalcolmW Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2001-08-11
Posts: 1,712
Loc: Hampshire/Wiltshire Borders, U...
Originally Posted By: "DrOne"
Forcing people to upgrade?

Why don't Apple allow you to roll back to a previous (and satisfactory) version if you don't like the new offering? Their system is like a ratchet.


Malcolm
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#192061 - 2013-06-18 23:52 Re: iOS 7 [Re: MalcolmW]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 709
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 709
Loc: Newbury, UK
You can, it's just not obvious how. You can shift click on 'restore' and then upload any platform supported ipsw file you like. Your pc will have any you upgraded to cached locally. Then you restore your settings back on top of that. Its a long winded approach but it is possible.


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#192217 - 2013-06-21 21:35 Re: iOS 7 [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2003-08-01
Posts: 982
Mudge Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Mudge Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2003-08-01
Posts: 982
Loc: Surrey Hills, UK
I would think from perusing the statistics that 93% of people who own Apple devices capable of running iOS6 are doing so.
I would contend that probably 99% of people running a device capable of running Jelly Bean are doing so.
It's just that there seem to be fewer Jelly-Bean-capable older devices out there - there are probably more iPhone 3G/3GS
and iPad1 owners out there stuck on older software, just waiting for the App store update mechanism to uninstall their favourite apps.


Mark
G68, baby Genelecs, Humax Foxsat, Oppo+Vanity93, Toshiba HD-A35, Pioneer CLD-925 + Meridian 519, various other random bits and bobs
Got a black G08.2 you want to sell?
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#192224 - 2013-06-21 23:45 Re: iOS 7 [Re: Mudge]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,355
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,355
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By: Mudge
I would think from perusing the statistics that 93% of people who own Apple devices capable of running iOS6 are doing so.
I would contend that probably 99% of people running a device capable of running Jelly Bean are doing so.
As an aside, from the stats, developing apps for iOS vs. Android still seems very attractive for this reason.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#192235 - 2013-06-22 03:27 Re: iOS 7 [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 908
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 908
Loc: New York, NY, USA
Originally Posted By: VirusKiller
... developing apps for iOS vs. Android still seems very attractive for this reason.
I will give you that. It's within this, the issue has been that iPhones/iPads have been consistent in size with consistent processor and graphics. Perhaps the biggest knock against Android is older variants of Android seemed to have an open hardware policy that allowed several size screens or processor, with any number of button configs. This all made for difficult app development.


Primary: MD600, MS200 (SpeakerLink to AES), Trinnov ST-2, Ayre V6-xe, Salk SS8 3x LRC.
Secondary: MC600 (whole house).
Zone one: 568.2, G57, MS200, Spatial Hologram M2SE.
Zone 2-6 (Awaiting assignment).
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#192246 - 2013-06-22 14:26 Re: iOS 7 [Re: Yetis]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,494
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,494
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
+1

Even developing screens optimised for iPad, iPhone and now iPhone 5 is a right royal PITA. Apple introduced more tools to help handle this, but they are only available if you target devices with the latest versions of iOS.

I could imagine that handling all the screen variants available on Android and windows, handling different screen real estate becomes a full time exercise.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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