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#155296 - 2011-12-05 12:38 Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: Kristjansen]
Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 337
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 337
Loc: Welwyn, Herts, UK
Originally Posted By: Kristjansen
Could you be talked into building a supply for me - or guiding me through the installation?
No problem! I'd be happy to modify any Hitchhikers equipment, or provide support.

I happen to have a spare, used, Power One HDBB-105W for anyone who has a G68 or 861.

Nick


Edited by WelwynNick; 2011-12-05 12:41.
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#155322 - 2011-12-05 16:23 Re: d-d-doctor...........it's alive!! [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 337
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 337
Loc: Welwyn, Herts, UK
Originally Posted By: WelwynNick
For the G61, there really is only one option - the FG Elektronik NMC 905. That may work with the G series players as well, but I'd like to try it out first. Pretty much anything will work in the G68, from the FG 905 to the Condor 105. The bigger the better, as far as I'm concerned.
Looking at the pictures of the G06 & G08 in Duncan's Meridian info, where the disc drive effectively occupies half the width of the player, I'm pretty confident the FG 905 supply would be suitable.

However the 800 has always been more of a challenge. The fan is mounted on the floor, the PSU on the inside front panel, and the filter board on the side panel, leaving very little space free for a larger supply. I expect the comapact Condor/Power One HTAA-16W solution won't be powerful enough, and the larger conventional supplies are too large.

Then I had a great idea, and did some test-fitting in an empty 861. With the fan removed (but the disc drive in position) it looks like the 160x100mm FG Elektronik supplies will fit either length-wise or width-wise on the base of the chassis. But who says it has to go on the base? With the SMPS removed, the FG 105 or 905 will mount neatly onto the the extrusions that retain the front chassis panel and the vertical motherboard. It could hang upside-down, with the heat-sink facing the fan.

Alternatively, the 905 could certainly be mounted on the inside of the front panel - where the SMPS is in the picture above, but mountd to the vertical panel rather than on the base. Depending on the position of the fan and the filter board, the FG 905 would probably fit there was well (again, with the heat sink close to the fan).

Feeling much happier now.

Nick

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#155390 - 2011-12-06 17:04 Re: d-d-doctor...........it's alive!! [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 337
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 337
Loc: Welwyn, Herts, UK
Here's a few pictures of roughly what the FG Elektronik NMC 905 would look like in a G61R. All the cards have been removed, and the LPS sits where the SMPS used to be, but I've put the latter back in for scale. As you can see, I've had to trim one of the backplane supporting brackets (only using a wire cutter - no sawing needed). The LPS could simply sit on some short, threaded stand-offs, like the 861 filter board uses. There's sufficient height clearance, even in the G61. It looks like it was meant to be there.





Alternatively, the FG 905 could be fitted upside-down, with the heat sink screwed to the chassis base. Not so pretty, but good for cooling, and the mains and DC wiring is short and neat. There's still room for four super-rgulators if wanted.





Nick

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#155398 - 2011-12-07 01:53 Re: d-d-doctor...........it's alive!! [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2010-03-03
Posts: 530
Avii Offline
Paranoid android
Avii Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-03-03
Posts: 530
Loc: Manchester, UK
Is PSU shielding a consideration ?


Life but not as we know it...
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#155399 - 2011-12-07 02:07 Re: d-d-doctor...........it's alive!! [Re: Avii]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,355
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,355
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By: Avii
Is PSU shielding a consideration ?
You read my mind!

Edit: Quote from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply)
Quote:
Unlike a linear power supply, the pass transistor of a switching mode supply switches very quickly (typically between 50 kHz and 1 MHz) between full-on and full-off states
So the RF spectrum from a linear supply is presumably a lot less than a SMPS?


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
Edited by VirusKiller; 2011-12-07 02:19.
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#155400 - 2011-12-07 02:31 Re: d-d-doctor...........it's alive!! [Re: Avii]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,000
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 4,000
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Avii
Is PSU shielding a consideration ?


How funny, you chaps are busy looking at the pictures thinking PSU shielding, I'm looking at the pictures and finding "Park" and "Shine" in the wordsearch...


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#155404 - 2011-12-07 02:56 Re: d-d-doctor...........it's alive!! [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2010-03-03
Posts: 530
Avii Offline
Paranoid android
Avii Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-03-03
Posts: 530
Loc: Manchester, UK
Originally Posted By: VirusKiller
Originally Posted By: Avii
Is PSU shielding a consideration ?
You read my mind!

Edit: Quote from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply)
Quote:
Unlike a linear power supply, the pass transistor of a switching mode supply switches very quickly (typically between 50 kHz and 1 MHz) between full-on and full-off states
So the RF spectrum from a linear supply is presumably a lot less than a SMPS?


I think Nick used an optional metal enclosure for the 861 mod but obviously there's more space. Some brands appear to shield linear PSU's.





Life but not as we know it...
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#155405 - 2011-12-07 03:11 Re: d-d-doctor...........it's alive!! [Re: Avii]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,355
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,355
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Am I right in thinking that the highest frequency in a linear PSU is simply the input mains frequency? I don't think there is much critical RF coming from such a supply.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#155417 - 2011-12-07 08:26 Re: d-d-doctor...........it's alive!! [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2005-08-04
Posts: 203
Dpaws Offline
Hitchhiker
Dpaws Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2005-08-04
Posts: 203
Loc: Trieste, Italy
As far as I'm aware it depends very much on the transformer design... You will also introduce mechanical vibration from the Tx so this should be damped.

Examples from gear I'm familiar with - the Weiss Medea has a double aluminium casing to prevent interference from external sources. However, internally only the DAC and analogue output stages are shielded

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/weiss/medea_open.jpg

One of the highest build quality music servers around, the Aurender has shielded everything

http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2011/1129/internal-clock.jpg

The shielding of an internal power supply IMHO would appear to be beneficial. An alternative is to have an external supply with an umbilical lead - this overcomes the shielding issues but introduces new problems with the power lead connection interface.

NAIM have successfully adopted the external PSU for many years. The NAIM Bundy cable, its connector and its internal strand layout evolved from many hours of measurements. Certainly from the listening perspective the arrangement is more positive than negative.

As with many things in hi-fi, sometimes it's a case of having to accept the lesser of two evils...

Thankfully as DIY tweakers, we are not obliged to compromise our objectives to meet EU paperwork or commercial product budgets, unlike the guys at HQ...

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#155442 - 2011-12-07 17:11 Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 337
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 337
Loc: Welwyn, Herts, UK
Some linear power supplies have optional steel cases, like this R3 Technology case on my 861V4:



I wouldn't have thought this matters too much, as the mains frequency is so low. I did worry that the analogue audio might have a bit of hum on it - not something that Meridian would have had to design out, but there was never any suggestion of this.

I'd have thought that shielding a linear PSU was less important that shielding the DSP boards from everything else.

Some of my LPS modifications have rubber grommet mountings for either the transformer or the chassis, though I'm not sure this is necessary either. Without a spacer to by-pass the bush, the mounting nut can't be very tight, and will need a lock-nut or thread-lock to stop it coming loose.

Nick

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#155480 - 2011-12-08 11:33 Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,296
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,296
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Following this thread with great interest. What about burson power regulators. Could these help with anything?

http://bursonaudio.com/burson_super_regulator.html



Future 861 MQA/24-192 system upgrade owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, Apple-TV 4K with nFuse 5, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> UHD722 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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#155483 - 2011-12-08 12:40 Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2005-08-04
Posts: 203
Dpaws Offline
Hitchhiker
Dpaws Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2005-08-04
Posts: 203
Loc: Trieste, Italy
I prefer the Belleson guys who publish scope shots on their site but generically upgrading the quality of voltage regulator should always improve matters.

I was noting how many were present on the DSP boards for the 5.5k's... could be one hell of an upgrade but pricey too...

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