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#150011 - 2011-09-25 14:27 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Simon]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,780
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,780
Loc: Central England, UK
Summary thus far.

6.1 Sound Track (decoded to LPCM) -->
HD621 (set to 8 ch) -->
861v6 (7.1) MOVIE8 Cinema (i.e. 8 channel discrete no decoding or matrixing)

Rear Channels: One OK, One Silent frown
Oppo, Sony & Samsung.

Rear Channels: Both OK
HDI Dune.


So either the decoder (in this case the player) should output the mono rear channel to both rear channels.

OR

The processor; that is expecting 8 channels of discrete PCM should somehow know that if the one of the rear discrete channels is silent it should output the mono non-silent one to both. This, to me at least, seems like a leap too far.

My money is that the decoder should do this (like the Dune does).
It will be very interesting to see the feedback from the manufactures. In the meantime Iím going to Google to see what I can find out about the 6.1 DTS-HD & DD-MA standards.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#150012 - 2011-09-25 14:34 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Simon]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Loc: UK
Hi Simon,
As you know from previous posts, I'd have no hesitation in criticizing Meridian when I feel it's due

However, I don't feel that this is Meridian's problem or error

As Oppo's Customer Support said, Oppo and Sony are doing the Decoding......as part of that process, they should synthesize a DUAL MONO 2-ch Stream from the 6.1 soundtrack

This should then be output to the Meridian HD621 as the last 2 channels of the Movie8 Stream

The 861 will then pick that up and simply send the 2 Channels to the 2 Rear Speakers.......just as they do with the 7.1 Stream

What the Oppo and Sony appear to be doing instead is sending just the 7th chanel.......but tells the HD621 that it's sending 8 channels.......again, just as it does with 7.1 soundtracks

And the 861 is simply playing that 8th chanel......even though it's actually mute


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Edited by Ronnie; 2011-09-25 16:23.
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#150023 - 2011-09-25 16:46 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Simon]
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 1,443
Simon Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Simon Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 1,443
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Perhaps you are right, at this point I am not sure where the problem lies. The 861 seems to be doing what it is supposed to, so it is either a problem with HD621 or with the players. I wonder what it is that the Dune player is able to do that neither the Oppo, Sony or Samsung units can do? Presumably the same EDID negotiation is happening from the perspective of the HD621, but it is somehow being interpretted differently?


My Kit: 861v8+ID41, 800v4, HD621, MD600, MS200, Oppo BDP-93, Genesis 201, custom center speaker/S4-8 Sub, BG 520i, VTL MB450 II, Krell Showcase 7, Genesis Subs, Danley DTS10 sub, Lumagen Radiance XE, Sony VPL-VW200, Panamorph Anamorphic lens.
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#150031 - 2011-09-26 01:37 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Simon]
Registered: 2002-11-08
Posts: 426
PerS1 Offline
(MDS Norway AS) Paranoid android
PerS1 Offline
(MDS Norway AS)
Paranoid android

Registered: 2002-11-08
Posts: 426
Loc: Asker, Akershus, Norway
Just got mail from Oppo European Support Engineer

"There is no support for 6.1 in the Oppo at this time, I'll get back with more info on this soon."

PerS


40th.Anv.DSP8000SE &861v8/ID41,Meridian Ultra Dac,C15 Black w/SSD,QNAP TS-669Pro 6X3 Tb w/Core,HD621,Oppo UDP-203 ,JVC DLA-X700R, 2xJL Audio F112v2, Marantz 8802A for Atmos with KEF Reference 5 and 4C withR700 sides & rears and 4xKEF R50 Atmos
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#150034 - 2011-09-26 02:40 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Simon]
Registered: 2000-05-29
Posts: 2,340
Jaco Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Jaco Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2000-05-29
Posts: 2,340
Loc: Almere, The Netherlands
I will try to run some Bluray rips with the Dune to test a discrete 7.1 channel test to see if they all end up in the correct channel or that the back 2 channels are always on the both speakers. This Dune could also play a trick on me in that regards.

I think I did run a 7.1 test from the Oppo BD-83 I had in the past and that worked. I will report back later.


Sold all M equipment
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#150035 - 2011-09-26 02:55 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Simon]
Registered: 2007-05-19
Posts: 1,005
JobSeeker Offline
Pan-dimensional being
JobSeeker Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-05-19
Posts: 1,005
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
In some ways I can understand why Meridian wanted to stay away from disc players when we get things like this so long after Bluray was launched.

Mind you, who in their right mind releases a 6.1 soundtrack in the current market ? Clearly it wasn't anticipated by the hardware manufacturers.


Roon (ROCK NUC with internal SSD storage)
Meridian 218, DSP3200.
Lindemann Musicbook 20DSD and 55, PMC Wafer 1 (shared with Marantz SR7011 7.1 system).

Explorer 2.
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#150041 - 2011-09-26 06:11 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: PerS1]
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 1,443
Simon Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Simon Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 1,443
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted By: PerS1
Just got mail from Oppo European Support Engineer
"There is no support for 6.1 in the OPPO at this time, I'll get back with more info on this soon."


Hmmn, that is interesting - somewhat inconsistent with the response I got back from Oppo here in the US. I shall ping them again, although if true, it is good news as Oppo is more likely to provide a timely fix than Meridian.


My Kit: 861v8+ID41, 800v4, HD621, MD600, MS200, Oppo BDP-93, Genesis 201, custom center speaker/S4-8 Sub, BG 520i, VTL MB450 II, Krell Showcase 7, Genesis Subs, Danley DTS10 sub, Lumagen Radiance XE, Sony VPL-VW200, Panamorph Anamorphic lens.
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#150046 - 2011-09-26 09:32 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Simon]
Registered: 2000-05-29
Posts: 2,340
Jaco Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Jaco Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2000-05-29
Posts: 2,340
Loc: Almere, The Netherlands
Retested it:

Dune:
PCM Movie 8 96K
All channels work

Oppo BD-93 EU:
MHR Movie 8 96K
All channels work


Oppo runs firmware: BDP9xEU-50-0608
HD621 I cannot check (no serial interface on new PC)
861v6 as from factory.

Have the HD621 setup as 8 channels I think (can also not check).

There is a Radiance XD after the HD621 which is setup to only receive PCM. Perhaps the HD621 relays that info?


Sold all M equipment
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#150047 - 2011-09-26 09:53 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Jaco]
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 1,443
Simon Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Simon Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 1,443
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted By: Jaco
Oppo BD-93 EU:
MHR Movie 8 96K
All channels work


Just so I am clear, you played a discrete 6.1 soundtrack through the Oppo, got the 861 to display Movie8 as the input, and BOTH rear speakers make sound?


My Kit: 861v8+ID41, 800v4, HD621, MD600, MS200, Oppo BDP-93, Genesis 201, custom center speaker/S4-8 Sub, BG 520i, VTL MB450 II, Krell Showcase 7, Genesis Subs, Danley DTS10 sub, Lumagen Radiance XE, Sony VPL-VW200, Panamorph Anamorphic lens.
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#150056 - 2011-09-26 12:18 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Simon]
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 1,443
Simon Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Simon Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 1,443
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I guess, as with all things, it is how you ask the question. Response #4 from Oppo:

The player does not support DTS ES or Dolby Digital EX decoding. Many soundtracks which are 6.1 or 7.1 will use these extensions. However, Star Wars is discrete DTS HD-Master 6.1, so the player does support decoding these soundtracks in 6.1.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
Oppo Digital, Inc.


My Kit: 861v8+ID41, 800v4, HD621, MD600, MS200, Oppo BDP-93, Genesis 201, custom center speaker/S4-8 Sub, BG 520i, VTL MB450 II, Krell Showcase 7, Genesis Subs, Danley DTS10 sub, Lumagen Radiance XE, Sony VPL-VW200, Panamorph Anamorphic lens.
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#150057 - 2011-09-26 12:23 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Simon]
Registered: 2000-05-29
Posts: 2,340
Jaco Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Jaco Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2000-05-29
Posts: 2,340
Loc: Almere, The Netherlands
Simon,
Yes, i tested it with my head against the speakers to be sure.

I have only a 1:1 rip from the NL box set, but that should be 1:1 the same audio and video as the UK box set.

The Oppo playback test is a .ISO from the Phantom Manace which i made of the folder structure. (downloaded it as folder structure)
The ISO is stored on a SATA hdd, connected with e-sata to the Oppo.

I will need to make ISO files of my audio test discs i have (with 6.1 on them) to test them.

DTS demo 2008
DTS demo 14

Also there are a number of other DTS 6.1 movies i think:
Top Gun
Bolt
The untouchables
Wall-E
Black Rain


Sold all M equipment
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#150060 - 2011-09-26 13:11 Re: Star Wars Blu-Ray in 6.1 Audio [Re: Simon]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Loc: UK
Again to re-iterate.........

Dolby Digital EX 6.1, DTS ES Matrix 6.1 and DTS ES Discrete 6.1 are all Lossy Codecs that have been around since about 2000..........and were primarily used on DVD's

As such, most of the DVD Players and Processors are compatible with them........and thus using any Discs or Samples with these Codecs is not a good test for what will happen with the Lossless Codecs.......which are newer...........

This "newness" applies especially to the Lossless DTS HD-MA 6.1 Codec..........which as the Oppo guy above says is Discrete

The Link below gives the list of 11 Movies with this DTS HD MA 6.1 Codec..........which is obviously not the same as DTS ES........or DTS-HD Hi Res

Star Wars hasn't been tested yet......so it isn't in the list below............so you have 3 by LOTR...........and 2 by Harry Potter

List of Movies with Lossless DTS HD-MA 6.1 Soundtracks - US Region A


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