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#140467 - 2011-04-24 06:29 Sooloos Backup Strategy
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi Sooloos Owners,

I've added a TwinStore (with two * 2TB Seagate Constellation Drives) to my C15 and disabled the storage in the C15 so all my albums are on the TwinStore (circa 3500 and growing).

My Sooloos Backup Strategy

For backup I have a simple StarTech 2.5"/3.5" SATA HDD docking station connected to my PC. I just drop in a 'bare' SATA drive and backup to it. Once complete I take the 'bare' drive (protected in its shipping packaging) to my office so I have an offsite back. I have two of these 'bare' drives and alternate them monthly between home and my office. The drive at home is updated weekly using ControlPC backup, which only take a few minutes to capture the changes.

Taking this approach gives me: Two copies on the TwinStore (for availability), plus two backups one at home and one offsite.

What do you guys do?

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#140468 - 2011-04-24 06:47 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Loc: Ireland
Hi Carl ,

I'm about to receive a TwinStore and considering upping to 2TB and wondering precisely what drives you are using?

I think it makes sense to start off with 2TB from the get-go and am considering starting to re-rip my collection direct to TwinStore from scratch ( Any benefits ? ) and disabling storage on MC200 and doing those again as they can't be cut/pasted over to TwinStore AFAIK.

Regarding backup I have a 4TB HP server I was hoping to use for initial TwinStore backup if possible and then, like yourself, copy to another off-site drive(s) setup. It seems to me that you have all the bases covered.

I am assuming that everything 'played' from the TwinStore will benefit from the MC200/ID40 combination further downstream?

Best

M


Mostly harmless. Comfortably numb.
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#140470 - 2011-04-24 08:02 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2000-08-18
Posts: 939
Tassie Devil Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Tassie Devil Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2000-08-18
Posts: 939
Loc: Dilston, Tasmania, Australia
Hi Carl,

I only backup when finished but what you are doing is a better approach. See my other post.


3 HD TV PVRs, DVDR & OPPO -> HD621 -> 861v4
Esoteric UX1 LE, LDs (HLD-X9 & D925)-> iScan VP50 -> HD621 etc
Sooloos: C10/MS600 ->M2Tech Vaughan ->Blockhead ->Senn HD800
* video -> Sony VW200
* audio-> McIntosh C200 & 861v4 -> Halcro DM68 + Plinius amps -> E/S L/R Sound Labs, E/S centre & 4 spkrs + 4 subs
System control: HTM Aeros & 12CH IR switcher
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#140475 - 2011-04-24 10:47 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Meridialien]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By: Meridialien
I'm about to receive a Twinstore and considering upping to 2TB and wondering precisely what drives you are using
Hi M,

Yes, those are the ones I used; £155 each from eBuyer :

Seagate 2TB Constellation ES ST32000644NS - SATA-300; the automatic formatting in the TwinStore was very quick only about 10 minutes; then the TwinStore became available for use.

As I'm sure you spotted from the Seagate site, they now do the Constellation ES.2 ST33000650NS - 3 TB - SATA-600, which should also work fine in the TwinStore, but theyíre not readily available yet in UK. Their available plus as Iíve got 800G of free space plus the 500G on the C15 if I really need it, I went for the 2TB drives.

Regards,
Carl

PS: Be very careful what you put in a TwinStore (or Ensemble) drive bay; as the automatic formatting will wipe the disk, including a formatted disk from an Ensemble. I'm told, but have not personally witnessed, that even moving a drive from one TwinStore to another with cause it to be formatted.

PPS: With a moderately fast PC and a 1G LAN / Switches etc.; I achieved a restore rate of 3 albums per minute.


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#140476 - 2011-04-24 11:03 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Meridialien]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By: Meridialien
I am considering starting to re-rip my collection direct to TwinStore from scratch (Any benefits?) and disabling storage on MC200 and doing those again as they can't be Cut/pasted over to TwinStore AFAIK.


It should be possible to use ControlPC / ControlMAC to perform a Sooloos backup of the albums on your MC200 on to a 3rd party disk. Then disable the MC200 storage and restore the backup onto the TwinStore. Effectively this is what I did with my C15. If youíre happy with the Rips on your MC200 this would save you a lot of time.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#140481 - 2011-04-24 12:20 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,379
Ludwig Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ludwig Offline
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Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,379
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Carl
Originally Posted By: Meridialien
I am considering starting to re-rip my collection direct to TwinStore from scratch (Any benefits?) and disabling storage on MC200 and doing those again as they can't be Cut/pasted over to TwinStore AFAIK.


It should be possible to use ControlPC / ControlMAC to perform a Sooloos backup of the albums on your MC200 on to a 3rd party disk. Then disable the MC200 storage and restore the backup onto the TwinStore. Effectively this is what I did with my C15. If youíre happy with the Rips on your MC200 this would save you a lot of time.

This procedure was also described by Rick in the past as a reliable way of doing this.


Ex-moderator
Sitting room: 818v3, 8kSE
Office: 818v3, Stax SRM-T1, Stax SR404LE
TV room: HD621, 518, D33
Kitchen: MS200, Genelec 6010 actives
Server: Roon/NUC/Touchscreen

Oldest audio file: 1889 Edison cylinder
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#140485 - 2011-04-24 14:26 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Loc: Ireland
Interesting, Thanks guys.

I don't have a Control15 so some of the options don't seem to be available, so it's encouraging that nobody has had any problems with drives as yet.

I hope that M update their User Guides soon as they really need to be current.

Cheers

M


Mostly harmless. Comfortably numb.
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#140486 - 2011-04-24 15:29 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Meridialien]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Loc: Central England, UK
To disable the MC200 storage (without a C10/C15), you will need to download the Meridian Sooloos Configuration Application (PC only no Mac version).

It's downloadable from the Meridian Sooloos Support Site

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#140504 - 2011-04-25 04:13 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Loc: Ireland
Already done , Carl , Thanks . Not much to it so far but I think there's much more to come .

It would indeed make it much easier to backup MC200 and then copy to TwinStore although I need to be very sure that its ok to do that as I recall saying that you shouldnt copy say , an Ensemble's contents to a TwinStore for example . They are uniquely formatted ??

M

P.S. I would be very tempted by the 3tb drives if M would recommend them as Iwould like to put my 2-ch DVD-A tracks on there too before my 598 dies .......


Mostly harmless. Comfortably numb.
Edited by Meridialien; 2011-04-25 04:15. Edit Reason: Afterthought
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#140506 - 2011-04-25 04:51 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2010-02-12
Posts: 1,756
AudioImages - Rick Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
AudioImages - Rick Offline
Meridian Partner
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2010-02-12
Posts: 1,756
Loc: Sheffield, England
Hi All,

You're fine backing up any Sooloos system to a NAS, and then restoring it to a different Sooloos system to move where to albums are stored.

I'm going to check again, but I don't think the Sooloos configuration program allows you to switch off the MC200 internal storage. Like it can with the Control 15. In fact I don't think even using a Control 15 you can turn off the MC200 storage.

I've been told this will be addressed in future versions of the Config Program, and have 'put the feelers out' to try to get a timescale for the feature.

Rick


Audio Images, 284 Glossop Road, Sheffield, England. Tel: 0114 273 7893
Website: www.audio-images.co.uk Email: Click here to email Rick
Twitter: Audio Images
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#140509 - 2011-04-25 05:13 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Meridialien]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi M,

You can't swap physical hard drives from an Ensemble to a TwinStore because the TwinStore will just reformate the disk. However, using ControlPC/MAC you can backup take a Sooloos Backup from one Sooloos store and restore it on to another type.

Using ControlPC I have performed the following with no issues:

Ensemble --> Sooloos Backup to 3rd party drive --> Sooloos Restore --> C15

C15 --> Sooloos Backup to 3rd party drive --> Sooloos Restore --> TwinStore

3TB drives: M don't even recommend the 2TB drives yet (MC600 excepted), so I doubt they will comment on the 3TB drives for a year or two.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#140510 - 2011-04-25 05:35 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: AudioImages - Rick]
Registered: 2010-02-12
Posts: 1,756
AudioImages - Rick Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
AudioImages - Rick Offline
Meridian Partner
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2010-02-12
Posts: 1,756
Loc: Sheffield, England
Originally Posted By: AudioImages
I'm going to check again, but I don't think the Sooloos configuration program allows you to switch off the MC200 internal storage.


Just downloaded the Sooloos Config program from the Website to make sure I had the latest version, and I can't see any option to turn off the MC200 internal storage.

Rick


Audio Images, 284 Glossop Road, Sheffield, England. Tel: 0114 273 7893
Website: www.audio-images.co.uk Email: Click here to email Rick
Twitter: Audio Images
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#140513 - 2011-04-25 06:04 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi Rick,

Thanks for checking, thatís a bit of an omission from M, I hope it is rectified quickly.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#140522 - 2011-04-25 09:55 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2010-08-23
Posts: 106
Victor Offline
Hitchhiker
Victor Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-08-23
Posts: 106
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
Originally Posted By: Carl
As I'm sure you spotted from the Seagate site, they now do the Constellation ES.2 ST33000650NS - 3 TB - SATA-600, which should also work fine in the TwinStore, but theyíre not readily available yet in UK. Their available plus as Iíve got 800G of free space plus the 500G on the C15 if I really need it, I went for the 2TB drives.

I don't think the 3TB drives will work in a TwinStore. One of my friends has tried 3TB drives without any luck. The Sooloos system is based on Windows XP, Windows XP does not support 3TB drives without adding a bios update (as far as I know).


So much music, so little time.
Sooloos Control:10, TwinStore (4TB)
McIntosh MDA1000, 60th Anniversary C22 & MC75s
B&W Signature Diamond
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#140523 - 2011-04-25 10:00 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2010-08-23
Posts: 106
Victor Offline
Hitchhiker
Victor Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-08-23
Posts: 106
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
I would like to wait for all my loading to be done for my backup. I've put in lots of work editing files and it's a little scary not having a backup so I'm doing a backup right now as I post this.

I also think it's a great idea having an offsite backup, I keep a second backup at work for extra security.


So much music, so little time.
Sooloos Control:10, TwinStore (4TB)
McIntosh MDA1000, 60th Anniversary C22 & MC75s
B&W Signature Diamond
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#140525 - 2011-04-25 10:14 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi Victor,

Thanks for the feedback; did your friend try this with a TwinStore?
I ask because it was a Meridian Dealer that told me that the TwinStore runs Linux and should be ok with 3TB. However, I can't confirm this, though when I was told this I thought odd as we know C10/C15 run windows XP. Iím not sure about the Ensemble; but as it runs a Sooloos core this also tends to suggest Windows. Intriguing, I guess time will tell.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#140527 - 2011-04-25 10:27 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2010-08-23
Posts: 106
Victor Offline
Hitchhiker
Victor Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-08-23
Posts: 106
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
Yes, my friend tried this with a TwinStore. It was actually his dealer that put in the 3TB drives and could not get them to work.

Based on the C10/C15 running on Windows XP I just assumed the TwinStore would use the same operating system.


So much music, so little time.
Sooloos Control:10, TwinStore (4TB)
McIntosh MDA1000, 60th Anniversary C22 & MC75s
B&W Signature Diamond
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#140534 - 2011-04-25 13:32 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Loc: Ireland
Any idea which drive he tried ? Probably a Western Digital which seems to be available . With all the different generations of Sooloos kit about now we could do with amore up to date 'Sooloos Wiki ' with these kind of details about (in)compatibilities . It would be nice to have 'Importing ' and ' Backups' tips all in the one place for future owners of the Control15/MC200/600 . At the moment there are some excellent threads ( like this one ) but specific details can get lost . Current M Sooloos literature does not refer to Control 15/ MC200 /600 .


M


Mostly harmless. Comfortably numb.
Edited by Meridialien; 2011-04-25 13:36. Edit Reason: Idiot
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#140536 - 2011-04-25 14:11 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Meridialien]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi I agree, I've started compiling a list for the WiKi; watch this space.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#140537 - 2011-04-25 14:31 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Loc: Ireland
Excellent news, Carl ! Look forward to it. BTW look what I found earlier today :

http://tinyurl.com/Twinstore3TB

Particularly taken with this bit : "3TB of capacity easily configurable with Seagateģ DiscWizardô software to overcome legacy capacity limits of 2.1TB with no additional hardware required."

So the XP limitations mentioned earlier could be overcome ???? Until M come up with a new generation of 'Store' products bigger drives will be the way add to our libraries especially when it comes to adding hi-rez material from DVD-A or downloads.

M


Mostly harmless. Comfortably numb.
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#140538 - 2011-04-25 14:31 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2010-08-23
Posts: 106
Victor Offline
Hitchhiker
Victor Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-08-23
Posts: 106
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
I do not know what the 3 TB drive that did not work in my friends TwinStore was.

Here is a list of my loading tips if you want to add it to the Wiki:

Loading tip #1) I'm sure by now you have noticed that the pic Sooloos finds for the metadata is only 200x200 and pretty much sucks. Unfortunately you will have to manually change all the album pics using your PC interface. I've found that the bigger the better for the pics especially if you are using the "Dark" screensaver. Pics 1000x1000 work great but anything 500x500 are pretty good. The best place to get pics on the Internet is Album Art Exchange - High Quality Album Art (Album Covers and CD Covers) next best place is the MP3 section on Amazon then Amazon's music section then Google Images or eBay as a last resort.

I think you already know that Sooloos uses All Music Guide for it's metadata. If the Sooloos does not find the data you can sometimes "force" it in.

Loading tip #2) To import metadata on files the Sooloos does not find: From the Control:PC/Mac in the editing screen select "Update Metadata" at the bottom and enter the 10 digit AMG Album ID number from the lower left side of the AMG web page for that album. The number of spaces is important when entering this number, keep in mind the number is 10 digits long so if you see R 6209 you know there are 5 spaces. Also when doing this during importing, I find it works better if you leave the artist's name blank and only have the Album Name and AMG Album ID number entered.

Loading tip #3) Check the track titles when loading. It's much easier catching mistakes when loading the albums especially when loading FLAC or Apple Lossless files. If you find track title mistakes when loading FLAC or Apple Lossless files you can simply select "Revert to user data" at the bottom of the editing page, this will save you some manual typing time.

Loading tip #4) Having reviews available on the Control:10/15 is very cool. I thought it would be cool to have more reading info there so I add in artist biographies along with the reviews. Just find the artist bio online (All Music Guide) and using Control:PC/Mac copy and paste the bio in.

Loading tip #5) Meridian added a section called "Tags" which is a "Focus" searchable field. You can use Tags for any info you would like to add to the metadata. Don't forget you have this field to use.

I use Tags for the media type that was the original source for the album. For example: CD, Gold CD, XRCD, Dual layer SACD, LP, DVD-A, Download, High Res Download... This way I can find and "Focus" all my Gold CDs very quickly with just two taps on my Control:10 screen. If you are wondering, I have 328 Gold CDs on my Sooloos right now.

You can also use Tags as reminders for you. For example: if you are loading and you know an album you just loaded needs more editing but you don't want to do it right now just make a tag called "Edit" then you can quickly find these albums later.

If you have a huge Classical collection you can use tags for composers or orchestras to help organize your collection.

There are many uses for tags, don't forget they are there.

Loading tip #6) When editing album info if you are copying and pasting when you go to "paste" in Control:PC you don't get a drop down menu when you "right click". To paste into Control:10 editing fields just left click in the selected field to get the cursor in there then hit "control V" on the keyboard.

I have not used Control Mac so I'm not sure if this is a problem with Apple computers.

I don't really like the way Sooloos deals with multidisc sets, you can combine them as a set but I like them better as a single album. My method is time consuming but the end results work best.

Loading tip #7) To load multi disc sets as a single album:
Load the CDs on the Sooloos as you normally would, once the entire set is loaded export (as FLAC files) the CDs to your PC. Next import all the CDs in the set at the same time and "unalbumize" them then create a single album from all the songs in the set (make sure to get the track order correct by selecting the songs in play order). Now comes the first problem, All Music will not be able to automatically identify the newly created album so you will need to go to All Music and get the album number (at the bottom left of the web page) and you can then use this number to force the album data in. The next problem is when you force the data in like this it will only give song titles for the songs on CD 1, the rest will show as "unknown". Instead of typing in all the song titles you can simply select "revert to user data" at the bottom of the track editing page. Once you get all your data correctly entered complete the import. Don't forget to delete the original CDs from the Sooloos.

I've done this with about 100 multi disc sets on my Sooloos, it took some time but I'm glad I did it.

That's all the loading tips I can think of.

Here is a non-loading tip:

To go directly to a song in a Queue on the Control:10/15 double click it. I had no idea the Control:10/15 had double click features until I accidentally did this.


So much music, so little time.
Sooloos Control:10, TwinStore (4TB)
McIntosh MDA1000, 60th Anniversary C22 & MC75s
B&W Signature Diamond
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#140539 - 2011-04-25 14:34 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Meridialien Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2001-11-14
Posts: 2,130
Loc: Ireland
Great post , Victor , thx.

M


Mostly harmless. Comfortably numb.
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#140545 - 2011-04-25 16:17 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2010-09-29
Posts: 198
VinylNutter Offline
Hitchhiker
VinylNutter Offline
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Registered: 2010-09-29
Posts: 198
Loc: Surrey, UK
Thanks again Victor, lots of useful info!

I recently added a TwinStore (with M 1tb drives)to my Ensemble system thinking that the system would be smart enough to use both drives for storage (1tb in Ensemble too) giving me 2tb altogether and the option to change to larger drives in the future. I back up to an external drive weekly and have been thinking about a second backup in a different location too! I understood that backing up from controlmac would take music from both Ensemble and TwinStore and create a combined backup disc. I understand this leaves the second disc in the TwinStore somewhat redundant of course.

Reading this thread has me wondering if this is viable as many of you appear to be disabling one drive (C15/MC200) and storing all data on a TwinStore? Essentially i am now doubting that the system could be restored from my 2tb external backup? If so i need to sort it out as the system now has nearly 2000 albums entered manually and i dont fancy repeating that job!

Any thoughts welcomed!


Roon Core,UltraDAC, MS600, Bluesound Node 2
Marantz AV7703 Pre/Pro, Oppo BDP-105EU, Linn 350A/340A, Velodyne SPL1200, Classe CP-800, Revel Embrace, Cambridge Audio 840W x2,
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#140557 - 2011-04-26 00:00 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: AudioImages - Rick]
Registered: 2010-11-25
Posts: 90
JSCC Offline
Hitchhiker
JSCC Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-11-25
Posts: 90
Loc: Singapore
Having experienced a bad case of lost files (400 CD worth and luckily I managed to recover them), I had and will want to do the backup 3 ways:

1. Sooloos self-backup.
2. On every NEW addition of files, backup to the NAS.
3. As well as an external 3TB HDD.

It may be cumbersome to do it 3 times, but knowing I no longer had access to the original files and CDs, I surely would not want an irrecoverable incident to happen. Not to my Sooloos library which currently stands at 3836 CDs!

And yes, I am Victor's friend whom the local dealer tried using 3TB HDD on my new TwinStore but could not get it to work. Because of this, I had to go and buy one more TwinStore (2TB x 2TB) which shall arrive in a week's time. The code name for Seagate's latest 3TB drive is "Mantaray", but so far, only readily available as an external Seagate's HDD which I am using now as a 3rd backup option. For sure, Victor's very knowledgeable and I always call him for help whenever I hit as problem technically! He's really a great friend to me!

Cheers!


Meridian 504FM, 808.3, 800v4 DAX, DSP8kSL, Sooloos C15 + Twinstores (3TB x 2).
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Edited by JSCC; 2011-04-26 00:08.
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#140605 - 2011-04-26 14:00 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2004-05-12
Posts: 764
Duncs Offline
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Duncs Offline

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Posts: 764
Loc: Woking, Surrey, UK
I can also confirm that the 3Tb drives (Hitachi) do not work in the Ensemble either (It just repeatedly gives 4 short beeps - different to the formatting ones)


I'm just about to add a TwinStore to my system (to replace the Ensemble) and I understand that I have to do a full backup from the ensemble, switch it off, restart the Core and then restore to the TwinStore. Is that really the only way?

Couple of future questions:-

If I have 3 storage devices (say a C15, a TwinStore and an Ensemble) which one will it save newly imported media to? I'm guessing it's the one with the most free space or can you set a 'Primary'?

If I have 2 storage devices (a c15 & a TwinStore) both full of music; can you backup each one separately? or can you only just backup all the music in the system? If that is the case will it split backups across disks?

Is the restore clever enough to only restore missing albums from the failed unit?

I guess if that is the case a work around is to switch off all other storage units when doing a backup?

Thanks
Duncan


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#140611 - 2011-04-26 14:55 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Duncs]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


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Hi Duncan, Answers / comments below.

My C15 storage is presently turned off; however at some point in time I may need it again. In which case I think I would like to use it for just Hi-Def downloads and keep the TwinStore for CDs, but this would mean powering off the TwinStore before importing the Hi-Def files and possibly (depending on priority of storage selection) disabling the C15 storage before ripping a CD which is a right PITA.

Originally Posted By Duncs
I'm just about to add a TwinStore to my system (to replace the Ensemble) and I understand that I have to do a full back up from the Ensemble, switch it off, restart the Core and then restore to the TwinStore. Is that really the only way?
Yes, annoying isn't it! Store to Store transfer would be very handy.

Couple of future questions:-

If I have 3 storage devices (say a C15, a TwinStore and an Ensemble) which one will it save newly imported media to? I don't know, I'll do a test and find out. I'm guessing it's the one with the freest space or can you set a 'Primary'? Not currently, but I've heard that M are working on offering more advance controls.

If I have 2 storage devices (a C15 & a TwinStore) both full of music; can you backup each one separately? Or can you only just backup all the music in the system? If that is the case will it split backups across disks? Only by disabling C15 storage / powering down the TwinStore before starting the backup. You could use tags, but this would still entail the above in order to setup the tags (say C15, TwinStore) in the first instance.
Is the restore clever enough to only restore missing albums from the failed unit? , Both the restore and backup are differential, in that they only transfer the differences in order to synchronise. However, the whole Sooloos storage is view as a whole. Thus if both store operational if you take a full back and then switch of the TwinStore a restore would attempt to re-load the missing albums from the backup until the C15 was full. smile

I guess if that is the case a work around is to switch off all other storage units when doing a backup? This would enable you to backup just the active storage. However, it would not help with restore unless you had 2 backup areas one for C15 and one for TwinStore.



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#250928 - 2016-06-05 08:14 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2013-11-12
Posts: 39
ClassicalJoy Offline
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I just tried directly copying my HDD, working in an Ensemble, but my PC could not recognize it at all. It seems the most easy way to have an exact copy without any loss of any kind of info.

Any experiences/solutions?


C10, DSP5200, QNAP TS-453A (previously Ensemble).
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#250929 - 2016-06-05 09:42 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: ClassicalJoy]
Registered: 2010-12-09
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Ratbert Offline
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Ratbert Offline
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Sooloos format is incompatible with PC format that is why you can't see it, you could use Duncan's Sooloos interrogator program to to read the copied disk and check what is backed up, or you can run the Sooloos backup program from Control:PC.
Personally I moved to Roon where all files are kept in native format and so can be read by PC or Mac, Sooloos encrypts the files.

Russ


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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#250930 - 2016-06-05 10:17 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: ClassicalJoy]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Ronnie Offline
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Ronnie Offline
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Look on Control:PC to find out the IP Address of your Ensemble.

Then on your computer, map to the Ensemble drive using

"smb://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/Music/music2"... where XXX.XXX is the IP address of your Ensemble.

Then use FreeFileSync [or similar] to Sync what's on your Ensemble drive to another Drive or NAS.

You can also use FreeFileSync to set up a nightly / weekly Sync.


-
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#250954 - 2016-06-06 16:13 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2013-11-12
Posts: 39
ClassicalJoy Offline
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Thanks, I'll try this out. Very curious if it works for me. Somehow an exact copy of the disk and putting it elsewhere out of the house seemed the safest option to me.


C10, DSP5200, QNAP TS-453A (previously Ensemble).
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#250955 - 2016-06-06 16:36 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: ClassicalJoy]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,481
Ian Offline
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Ian Offline
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Probably one of the worst options - if you create an exact copy of the disc, in the event that Ensemble failing, you would not be able to restore it to anything other than an Ensemble (or another device with compatible disc format to ensemble).

This is especially true with RAID devices where sometimes, even RAID firmware differences is enough to make a physical device become incompatible.

What you want is a copy of the disc contents (or a Sooloos backup although some people seem to have issues with this) stored on media with the most compatible disc format. That way, if you decide to change hardware or OS, you can still read the backup contents.


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#250957 - 2016-06-06 18:05 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: ClassicalJoy]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Ronnie Offline
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Ronnie Offline
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This device and similar has also been used by a number of people on here

Take Disk out of Ensemble and put into Slot A

Put new 3.5" Drive into Slot B

Press Clone button on the side

2-3 hours later, you have a cloned drive


-
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#250958 - 2016-06-06 18:11 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,122
Ronnie Offline
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Ronnie Offline
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Loc: UK
FreeFileSync [and similar] creates a copy of the Files, which in turn can be copied back onto ANY Sooloos Store


-
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#251147 - 2016-06-12 10:50 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2013-11-12
Posts: 39
ClassicalJoy Offline
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Inaddition, I was wondering whether exporting as FLAC is an option?

BTW, thanks for your contribution.


C10, DSP5200, QNAP TS-453A (previously Ensemble).
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#251151 - 2016-06-12 18:12 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: ClassicalJoy]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,707
Carl Offline
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It's an option but it's not a substitute Sooloos backup, with an export you would have to import each album again back into Sooloos again ... all metadata corrections, play counts, import date would be reset.

Now a native export is just what you need if moving to another music streamer like Roon for example.


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
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#266790 - 2017-08-11 13:43 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2005-09-02
Posts: 492
Simon Mirren Offline
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Simon Mirren Offline
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Posts: 492
Loc: York, UK
Apologies for reviving an old thread but I'm trying to understand the usefulness of a Sooloos backup in a time where the cores are no longer made or supported at hardware level.

Case in point is my C15 has failed and although I have an up to date backup on an external drive there seems to be no way of accessing the music on it. I'm hoping the issue was limited to the power brick which I am in the process of replacing but if my unit is truly dead and beyond repair am I completely stuck and have to reimport every CD again into my computer if I want an electronic library?

I have a feeling a bit perfect export is the safest way to go in these times and might be worth baring in mind for all current Sooloos users. Please correct me if I'm wrong!?


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#266791 - 2017-08-11 13:59 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Simon Mirren]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,435
Ratbert Offline
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Ratbert Offline
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Registered: 2010-12-09
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I guess in the ideal world you would have a Sooloos backup and a full native export, that way to reload in the event of a disk failure you would just connect the backup disk to a pc or mac running Control:PC/mac and restore the backup, however after the initial full Sooloos backup the subsequent incremental backups only take account of any albums you add to your library, if you delete albums and think you will never see them again you may be in for a surprise when you have to do a restore, the only way around this is to do a completely fresh backup each time. frown
From a full native export you can do a Sooloos reload for example if moving from C15 as store to MD600 or Qnap NAS.
Or
As I chose, move to Roon where the library is stored in native format,FLAC,WAV etc: and the backup strategy can take advantage of more sophisticated backup tools.


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
Edited by Ratbert; 2017-08-11 14:30.
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#266792 - 2017-08-11 14:02 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Simon Mirren]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,370
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Working on the ultimate question
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
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A complete backup on a external drive is always a safe bet. I have seen a few power brick failures as of late so hopefully yours pops back to life. If you haven't already, change your CMOS battery which takes about 15 minutes.


www.cmbintegrations.com

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#266800 - 2017-08-12 08:53 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,451
ncpl Offline
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ncpl Offline

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Full native backup is the only sensible long term option. It is inevitable that your Sooloos core will fail at some point and it seems unlikely that you would buy another and access to another to do an export later on will get harder.
So, if your backup remains in Sooloos only format then you have an issue.

I would solve that asap if I were you


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#266806 - 2017-08-12 13:37 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2005-09-02
Posts: 492
Simon Mirren Offline
Paranoid android
Simon Mirren Offline
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Registered: 2005-09-02
Posts: 492
Loc: York, UK
Thanks, will do. Just hope the new brick and battery do the trick to start with!


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#266819 - 2017-08-13 10:21 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2010-05-09
Posts: 34
Winot Offline
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Winot Offline
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Originally Posted By ncpl
Full native backup is the only sensible long term option. It is inevitable that your Sooloos core will fail at some point and it seems unlikely that you would buy another and access to another to do an export later on will get harder.
So, if your backup remains in Sooloos only format then you have an issue.
Thanks for this - have just done this to add to my Sooloos backup.


Winot
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#266823 - 2017-08-13 10:56 Re: Sooloos Backup Strategy [Re: Winot]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,435
Ratbert Offline
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Ratbert Offline
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Just to avoid confusion a "full native backup" is a "full native export"


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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