Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Official Blue ray options - Denon, Arcam, Pioneer, etc.

I'm currently using a 1-chip DLP - (Projection Design Cineo 3+ 1080) but am also evaluating replacements including their 3-chip Helios. My current PJ's lens has no chromattic abberation on my screen, uniform focus with all pixels resolved. Even with the ISCO III lens in use there's only slight chromatic abberation at the extreme edges. I've demoed the PD Optix and it's even better - they hand pick and use the lens which have superior characteristics and I'll also be keeping a very close eye on panel alignment on the 3-chip.

As for the Radiance, if it's resolving the chroma test patterns correctly with the Panasonic vs the Sony I guess it's not interfering?

Cheers,

Mark

As Mark points out, the time it takes to switch between players is a royal PITA. It would be nice to have two identical displays and get them matched and running side-by-side.

Stacey:

Appreciate the feedback and advice...as I can only see myself watching movies most, if not all of which, will be 1080p24 the Panasonic seems like the best choice at the moment and, as such, I will likely go for it..

Again, much thanks.

That occurred to me too, but then you'd have to ensure both displays were identically calibrated. Not that easy...

Perhaps component all the way is the answer. No HDMI handshakes. Oh but then we'd expect -3dB on chroma signals!

I'm sure there's some kludgy way around this - a little black box that sits between the sources and the projector such that the projector always thinks it's connected to the same source and so no handshake is needed after the initial setup. And then with the flick of a switch the inputs can be alternated with immediate effect...?

Mark

Maybe I'm misinformed but as I understand it the audio is fed out unaltered through both HDMI (where it gains jitter through association with video - hence the HD621 solution) or through Toslink/coax.

Unless the player has an internal DAC -> analog out, jitter etc control lies in the processor (and remember the HD621 is a processor).

Jitter control can be by buffering (the Meridian approach) or by rigid timer control (as per Esoteric with their external Rb controlled Masterclocks).

I have used both approaches here and both are effective. Like all processing, the effectiveness of jitter control depends on circuit design, good software and quality componentry.

So, I understand the claim that all players are much the same re audio & video out. And a similar situation holds for HDMI out. It is if there is internal processing of audio & video to give analog audio & component etc video where differences can arise.

As I see the present situation, the advances in Bluray player will be faster data access rather than any audio or video improvements at HDMI out.

As a side issue on video quality, last night we looked at a movie with guests on laserdisc. Now most laserdisc players were pretty bad with mediocre to poor video and in the light of current gear, unacceptable. BUT, we used a Pioneer HLDX9 fed via lowly s-video into an iScan BP50 PRO and the video quality was equal to the better upscaled SD TV broadcasts. The resolution, colours etc were far far better than expected and I was a bit apprehensive when the laserdisc movie "Remains of the Day" was chosen.

So my point is that given top processing, video can be great but given mediocre processing is can be unwatchable. So guys and gals, do not stint on a good video processor. BTW the VP50 PRO is streets ahead of the DVDO HD+ I used for years in this system. Video processing has really gone ahead in leaps and bounds in recent years.

Bottom line in my book therefore is to get any of Pioneer, Panasonic (what I have), Denon etc that takes your fancy but be prepared to spend on a decent processor. Of course all this applies just as equally to audio and video. Sussing all this out is what makes this hobby so fascinating :-)

John

ADDENDUM CORRECTION

The above post is only partially correct.

There can be processing of the audio in the player as it can be set to downsample for PCM only output.

I'm guessing, (and pleae correct me if I'm wrong as I hate seeing wrong info posted) but if the setup is for HDMI bitstream audio out then HD bitstream audio from the disc -> audio processor without change. Similarly, if the output is set to PCM to exit the Toslink or coax digital out -> audio processor without change from 16/48 recordings.

But there are several other variations inbetween these straightforward paths and there has to be processing if downsampling occurs.

So, my "idea" (more of a nightmare) of taking PCM out from the secondary digital toslink/coax to an external processor (not the 861) has turned out to be more complicated than first thought. What I describe below most likely applies to most Bluray players.

First up with the Panasonic, if the secondary digital out is configured to be on, then the player will only process the old vanilla DD 5.1. Further than that the audio configuration must be PCM, not bitstream if there is to be anything useful for the external audio DAC.

So, for HD bitstream the Panasonic must be set to bitstream and the secondary audio set to off.

For any useful output from the secondary audio it must be set to on and the bitstream setting changed to PCM.

This is not an exercise one would normally relish. However the programmable remote comes to the rescue with 23 macro steps (11 of them 0.2 seconds of delays) to achieve the change of settings in the player. Fortunately the bitstream <-> PCM and the secondary audio on <-> off are A/B toggles so the same simple button push on the programmed remote (a HTM 850) makes the changes between the two options easy.

So I can now use the Panasonic the way I want to. For all movies, Bluray or DVD with uncritcal audio recorded, the audio goes out the HDMI -> HD621 -> 861 -> MC sound. Simple.

But for critical music videos that do not have the HD codecs onboard (and that is all DVDs of course, and they will be set to stereo out) the Panasonic will have its digital audio output through the secondary toslink -> a modified Benchmark DAC1 -> McIntosh preamp

From here the L/R will go direct to the L/R amps and speakers but a secondary feed out of the preamp -> Meridian 861 -> synthesised surround sound with a great choice of DSP modes.

If you have hung in with this boring diatribe so far you might want to know why the hell I make something relatively simple so complicated.

Well bear in mind I'm an audio nutter left over from last century, being particularly paranoid about not corrupting the precious L/R audio on good music material. Much as I love the 861, unless you set it to direct (so get no synthesised surround) the L/R audio is mushed up to a greater or lesser extent depending on which DSP mode is chosen. So my PCM option gives that uncorrupted 2CH + surround.

And yes, the video did pose a problem, overcome with an HDMI splitter so both settings on the 861 (Bluray and Preamp) took video from the two corresponding settings on the HD621.

And I dislike toslink and have the system set up for coax so the Panasonic will be modified to use coax out for that secondary digital audio feed. Yes playing with these toys is fun, but can be challenging at times!!!

John

firmware for LX91 released. finally DTS HD Master Audio conversion and BD-Live. Got to be the best player to hook up to the HD621. farewell PS3 as the moviesource..

Ooooh... finally!

Panasonic DMP-BD60 is up and running... a few comments:

-- setup is a must as the default setup is not optimal for those with HD621 (as deafult audio output is bitstream) and with 1080p24 capable devices (as the default is 1080p60)...anyways, have fixed those so that audio is PCM and video is 1080p24

-- there are a few parameters that I am unsure of but will play with and the report back hoping john, stacey, et. al. can help on...that said, thanks to mark_h re: tip to set video to ENHANCED rather than STANDARD to pass BTB and WTW.

Went out and bought Ironman and Transformers which will be the first two blu-ray discs as I understand that the audio is kickin'...

With that, the weekend seems set...

Joe1c, I think your player was correctly set up for bitstream. Not many Bluray discs are being released with Hi Def PCM AFAIK.

There is a helpful discussion of all these confusing formats at http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1064 and the Dolby & DTS HD formats are bitsstream, not PCM.

All VERY confusing.

John

Tassie, I think you are confusing things. You want EVERYTHING decoded to PCM with the HD621.

His player was problably setup wrong with bitstream as the default and he does want PCM and joel did the correct change by switching from bitstream to PCM.

You're correct that TrueHD and DTSMA are also "bitstream" but you DO NOT want to send bitstream to the HD621. You defeat it's purpose and if you do the handshake will see that HD621 can't take the HI-RES bitstreams and fall back to LO-RES bitstreams.

I've rented probably 25 BD's so far and EVERY ONE so far has had HI-RES.

PCM vs TrueHD vs DTS-MA doesn't matter they are all lossless "HI-RES" formats and should ALL be transmitted as PCM.

Thanks for the correction George. I restudied the manual.

And of course you are right, it does clearly state to set the player output to PCM and if bitstream is fed in it passes straight through.

Not sure that I have to reconfigure the HD621 as it is connected to the 861 with the 3 digital links so all should handshake ok. Just as well as no setup CD came with the HD621 although I guess it is downloadable from the net.

John