Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems Sub vs better DSPs for 2Ch?

James,
Here's where it is mentioned in the DSP33 handbook on page 30. I couldn't find the equivalent in the DSP500 manual.

There is also this Connecting Sub with MC200, 561 and DSP33s thread from last year in which I asked similar questions about the integration of a sub with DSP speakers.

Maybe of interest.
Cheers
Tim

Thanks guys.

If your 818 has both SPDIF and analog outputs live and volume controls for them both linked, you can use analog mains out for an aftermarket active sub and use the subs internal X/over AND a minidsp to correct the subs, Just use the DSP speakers in SUB mode.

However, you would be foolhardy to get rid of the 568.2 as you won't have to jump thru any hoops if you use it.

You might find it better to sell the 818... if you HAVE to sell anything...

Thanks Rodney, I wouldn't want to sell my 818 just to get subs integrated, tbh!

After sorting out my room and listening position, I've finally got my 5200s sounding their best. Feeling confident, I have added my SW1600 without the aid of the G61R. (I previously tried using a G61R config which included a music sub and played around with different crossover points, whilst really trying to get around some problems with room nodes which repositioning (largely) solved. I didn't like the sound using the processor to control the bass crossover. Maybe now I've solved some of the fundamental problems it would be a better option...)

My current configuration is MC200 -> MS200 -> Master 5200SL to slave 5200SL to AC12 to SW1600. For some reason when I tried this with the M6s in place of the 5200s I had no volume control on the SW1600 but it works great with the 5200s. SW1600 set to 1+2. Filter switched in.

So the 5200s have been left on Free and the sub filter set to almost to min (40 something Hz - trial and error after listening to several different music types). Gain is set much lower than when I use it (via G61R) for movies. Some may prefer the gain a little higher and calibration may suggest that it should be... But letting my brain calibrate things caters for my own bias!

Fills the low registers nicely and integrates well. Surprisingly easy. Doesn't boom and doesn't sound unnatural.

The real work was running MRC about 20 times one weekend to repeatedly find the best room configuration (including speaker placement) by looking at the room frequency response for each positional setup of the main L R pair. After tweaking positions I find MRC useful but not essential... So running 2 channel with the G61R out of the chain is now my preferred serious music listening mode. It means I have a couple of Speakerlink cables each running to the master and sub and these need swapping over when switching back and forth from running the MS200 as the source or the G61R.

I haven't yet run the front pair and sub as they are, but with the G61R as source with the 5200HC added running in Trifield with the M6s at the sides. It's my next step and I expect it will sound fine. I do like Trifield for quite a lot of my music but I have found that 2 channel sounds slightly more natural. Probably due to my 5200HC being positioned too low for the ideal soundstage, being boxed in under the TV.

I had originally followed the advice in the DSP set up manual and placed the 5200s 0.25m from the wall. They are now approx 0.75m from the wall. For the ultimate sound I have to remove the seating cushions from 2 of my sofas at the sides of the room (they cause a significant dip at 80Hz). Incidentally placing those same cushions behind the listening position against the opposing wall to the speakers further tames the 40Hz bass peak my room introduces.

I may try the sub with my 5000s just for fun.

Incidentally the room is taking a real pounding when playing dance music at 75 and above. Turning up the gain (but not increasing the filter cut off) on the sub is definitely advised for party mode ;-)

So does any of this answer the question of whether or not you should get better DSPs or just add a sub?
Probably not, at least until I run the sub with the 5000s. Although mine are 18 bit and the 5200s are (now) in a league above so I'm not sure my comments would be valid.

But there is no doubt that if you can get it to integrate nicely, a sub will help. I have a REL sub which I used to use for movies but was never happy with. The SW1600 has been a real pleasure and it just integrates so well in Movie mode via the G61R. And now it seems it is handy for music too, although I have to wait until my wife isn't around before I wheel it out to the position where it works best for music! (Trip hazard and eye sore)

Thanks, interesting to hear your experiences with the 5K2s and a sub!

From everyone who's posted here, including yourself, it does seem it's all about integration and room interaction, which is a good argument for MRC in itself - if nothing else it probably promotes more domestic harmony than rearranging the room for serious listening (maybe that's how Meridian should market it - MRC - Marriage Rescue Correction?).

I've had a kind offer of a listen to such a setup, so I think that's probably the next step for me - nothing tells you whether you'll like a particular solution/upgrade like actually hearing it, right?

I didn't have time to add the sub to the 5000s this weekend. Glad to read that you are going to have a listen somewhere.

The improvement of sub v better DSPs depends on budget I guess. I fully expect a pair of 7200s with EBA would offer a significant step, but a sub plus s/h processor may be an interesting option for you to try.

In my view, MRC is best applied after some of the more major problems have been solved in a room, either by furniture placement or room treatment. The MRC plots are really useful to find out where the nodes and anti-nodes are with (slightly) different speaker/ furniture / listening positions. I was very surprised at the effects of removing sofa cushions on the frequency response plots (anti-nodes at 80 and 100Hz are reduced).
Is this audible? Don't know how much to be honest. Haven't had enough time to listen to with/without set-ups.

Speaker placement changes brought about the biggest benefits (very audible). For fun, you should try this even if it isn't a long term solution, because it quickly shows you if there is an improvement to be had. A small change may still be wife friendly.

Biggest gain from MRC is in making the room less lively which brings some clarity and focus. It isn't as marked as I had expected though, but worthwhile. I really like my G61R.
With the G65 out, there are a few bargain G61Rs to be had too!