Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Off Topic Can't get away from snake oil

Just when I was ready to cancel my order for those $5000 per meter speaker cables Joel gives me hope. Maybe, just maybe, this will be the last improvement I need to push me into audio Nirvana.

Regards,
Gary

Yes, I get that, and in the context of a reasonable objective argument I'd agree. However, in the absence of any kind of substantive argument, the fact that some small percentage of users claim a difference strikes me as more likely to fall into the camp of 'delusion' rather than reality. But, I'm always willing to be open-minded about these things.

I'm with you on that and I'm pretty much a sceptic on such things. The trouble is that all the marketing hype interferes with making proper judgements.

I know this is an old argument, but I always get a good laugh out of the prices attached to uber-hiend cables. Who actually buys these things - and people must buy them or there wouldn't be so many on the market? I can appreciate a solid design as well as the next guy. In my system, I have some fairly long runs of single-ended cable, and good quality shielding is the difference between an annoying hum and golden silence. I just think there are far better, and more beneficial, places to invest some cash: starting with the room.

Perhaps, Gary, you are right in that the cables ought to be the 'last' step - but from my persepctive, buyer beware! Ooooh, gotta go, I think I just saw a bigfoot run through my back yard

It would be interesting to hear what a real musician has to say about this. I will ask my six year old son who knows everything about keyboards...

Seriously, MrMarbach, if you are willing to give us your opinion...

Huh, did someone mention my name? Will read the thread after I put the kids to bed...

I am not sure being a "real musician" helps in the this case, although I can speak with some authority on my own instrument. In the case of the piano, the expense of a �100000 concert grand comes about because they are expensive to make. They take a long time to be made by hand, and if you visit the factory and see it being done (as I have) you have the feeling that they aren't such bad value (especially compared to say a luxury car which is machine made and will only depreciate and stop working in the end).

On the materials question: Fazioli in Italy, a company born only some 20 years ago, have done a lot of scientific research into why pianos sound how they do, and make theirs according to the principles they have deduced. They are fine instruments but they have their problems, and I don't like most of them. And they are as expensive as Steinways and Bösendorfers, so they haven't shown up those two as a scam.

There have been many small technical changes to the piano's action, particularly in recent years. Many of these are resisted by pianists because they simply don't help. It wouldn't help us to spend �1000 more on "snake oil" in the sense of special modifications, because no-one can see them, and if they don't improve matters then they will simply not be acceptable. The invisibility of the piano's internals helps in that respect.

There is one possible exception to this and that is Fabbrini, who are a Steinway dealer in Italy. The original owner was Michelangeli's technician and he and his company have supplied instruments to people like Pollini, Schiff and many others since then. Pollini ships one all the way to NY for his Carnegie Hall recitals, for example. No-one really knows what the difference is: whether they are actually materially modified or if they are simply very well prepared (i.e. adjusted), and it doesn't really matter because if the pianist wants one they usually know why and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

It helps that this is a single case: there are not loads of people sprinkling magic dust on pianos in this way.

As for violins, the price of old Italian violins is because they are severely limited in quantity, and are definitely special - and that specialness is something which is more and more understood, and therefore can be replicated to some degree. Stradivarii's prices are the highest because of the name, but there are a lot of hugely expensive instruments by other people.

It is also worth noting that newly built and recent modern violins for classical soloists (often using the understanding of why the old Italian ones are so good) can be expensive as well (well over �100000). I know quite a few people with �100000 string instruments. All high level professionals would simply have to have something costing that much, otherwise they would not sound the same.

...I had a long-term girlfriend some years ago whose violin was worth �150000. (Her parents had bought it for her when she was 13 and won a major competition.) I used to pay her insurance premiums, so I know.

I have no doubt that's true - but I don't know how much it is with saxes.

I just played with Melbourne Symphony and instead of a contrabassoon they had a contraforte. I believe it is not wood but some sort of composite. The website doesn't explain but I saw one and discussed it with the people there. It sounded incredible, I have to say, though I don't know how much the material is part of that.

One more point: the difference between instruments is NOT defined only by raw sound. It is a lot to do with what (musically) it allows the player to achieve. That can't easily be measured, and can easily be misunderstood. But it has to be accepted that players would not tie up their whole life's earnings with a loan for an expensive instrument unless they thought it was worth it musically. It is not a luxury item.

Excuse the rambling. I hope it has provided an interesting perspective.

Nic, thanks for this fascinating insider's view. I really enjoyed that post.

You don't tell us in advance where you'll be playing - if you ever play in the UK, I for one would like to hear you play.

Hi Ronnie,

�Stradivarius� that interesting; Meridian use high altitude cold-climate wood to make their laminated speaker chassis. Meridian also speak of higher density woods performing better.

Regards,
Carl

I have a colleague with a Steinway within 50 serial numbers, so built at the same time from the same stock of wood. There is definitely a family resemblance in sound and touch which can only come from the wood (if we are not imagining it).

I read a while back an article highlighting quite some conflict about the Strads.
Has yet to be 'proven' in any blind test whether they are any better than other good instruments. Sound familiar?

Will see if I can find the link again.