Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems +3dB "LevelPerfect" Tweak Performance Improvement Poll

finally had a bash at the +3db tweak got to say i much prefer it,ive only had my dsp5ks since the weekend and thought my previous speakers were more out there but not since the tweak.
thanks george

I'm in the G68/DSP/Large impact group. There is a consequence of the change that I hadn't expected but let me try and explain what it is.

Given that the tweak results in more system detail (and I am 100% convinced of this) what I think this gives is a greater clarity of the sound stage/3-D imaging etc.

Having had several long sessions listening to this tweak I actually found that the sound stage I had was slightly skewed to the right.

SPL showed that L&R were the same level however.

So, I took a closer look at speaker placement and shifted the Left DSP about 3-4 inches forward and toe'd in a little more. Both these adjustments make L&R now as identical in placement as I can get.

Result is the image is now very, very 3-D, clear and central. I think this is a result of the extra detail perceived and this benefits the imaging as well as the raw direct sound created.

Put the other way:- I didn't ever detect any issue with this before. Maybe the impact on absolute resolution does have broader implications and it hid the skewing of imaging previously because it was not as clear to perceive.

Of course when we up-the-ante on our listening efforts we can hear all sorts of things. I'm aware of that.

But as with cable upgrades, lifting power cables off the floor, using isolating equipment....all beneficial tweaks lead to the ability to better hear and resolve what your overall system is doing.

I think the +3dB is one of these things.

Has anyone else that has done this tweak uncovered any other potential side-effects or benefits ?

BTW - George, all those folk on the Slim forum that think you are nuts have missed the point. This is a very real change and can be heard above their cries that it shouldn't be possible (Brahms and brass band bllx). My system has NEVER sounded as good as it does now. Great work !!

One side effect I have noticed is I tend to listen at lower volumes. Not just the 6dB difference I applied to get to +3dB.

Couple things that did come out of the slim thread I should mention.

One is I did a lot of testing and thinking how Meridian Hybrid volume *Probably* works. I did a post on that here but was surprised nobody commented on it. It basically says the Hybrid Volume works backwards from what you might think (or at least what I have thought for years).

So +3dB tweak may be effecting any of these things.

1) Better usage of the DAC.

2) It may put us a different "operating bracket" within the hybrid volume. If this is the case, I'm confident it's a "good" bracket because it's the same bracket an 808.3 would be in (wired direct)

3) It may possibly effect behavior of crossovers and they may run more accurate full scale.

Regarding #1 I have stressed #1 a lot and I know it exists. How much of what we actually hear of it is hard to measure.

Regarding #2 I plan to run another dynamic range test, 1dB step at time to see if I can figure out what's going on. I may even try measuring some stuff with a good Mic.

Regarding #3 I really don't think crossovers are the reason (despite experts on slim forum). Because if "Digital Levels" effected crossovers this much then "Levels" that vary within a single tune naturally would be messed up too. The Crossovers see ALL the data +3dB or no +3dB and do their math in higher precision. Good code should behave the same regardless of magnitude as long as it has all the data, which it does. Where as when the data hits the DAC at lower input levels, preformance of the DAC is impacted.

Also I want to remind folks to not approach Meridian as if this was a "bug". I think it's a design choice and they have some good reasons for it. But we just want to understand more and if they could humor us with a couple tweakable parameters. All we need is an analog offset in DSP Speakers.

I sure wish they would talk to us.

George,

one questions here:

Why not make for example +6dB or more for the rears to get shure that the headroom get minimized here AND subtract that 6dB then in the DSP modes(Trifield &others) in the rears and sides?
Standard range in level offset for the rears is +10dB and -30dB,
so there is "enough" room to play.

That should work at least for music, as I expect that the rears get never full signal on the mix,
because they should add surround and not the main information.

George, do you know or can you check if
the offset in the DSP modes will make the "same" as

a) the gain of the DSP(your +3dB feature) or
b) the volume adjustment on the MSR

If its case a), then the rears have have the advantages for the resolution and the correct SPL.

What do you think

Robert

I can't believe it would be that hard to implement a volume offset parameter in DSP speaker firmware, so that one could set all channels as +3dB in the processor and calibrate the speakers at the speaker.

+1 ditto.

I even went so bold, in a previous thread, as to suggest how this could be achived using DSP speaker idents and extended command codes.

Each DSP to be configure with a channel identifer eg FR, FC, FL, ...

Send MasterVolume + ChannelIdent + ChannelVolumeOffset

Sent on powerup and volume change.

I'm sure you get the idea.

Regards,
Carl

Hi Folks,
I finally got around to doing the tweak and I'm very happy. It seems to be an undeniable improvement. SACD's playing on the Oppo are nicely improved. iTunes movies have more jump factor.
My take is that a few bits don't make this kind of improvement. It's the fact that the digital signal gets dumped into the analog section of the DSP speakers at a higher level that is farther from the noise floor. It's undeniably more natural and 'real' sounding than before.
Thanks George! I'm very grateful for the time you put in.
One question: Is 3db's on the speakers the same as 3 clicks down on the volume?
Sam Edwards

Yes, 3 clicks is 3dB.

Just, some words to thank you.

I made the tweak yesterday and the result is magnificent.
I allowed of to announce your work to my friends Français on another forum, so that they also take advantage of it.

Good continuation.

PS : Excused my writing

Thermique,

You have analog speakers and it won't (should not change) anything except what is displayed for your volume control. I've tested it quite carefully and adjusting speaker calibration on analog setups is EXACTLY the same as adjusting the master volume. Where with DSP speakers it is not the same.

Hello George.

Hi confirm , i have analog speakers .

My essays are made just on movies in BR.

The regulations identical rest.
Just that I listen to a movie has 77 instead of 80.
In equal volume, I find the better, more harmonious sound, + coherent.
Rotating sound effect are even better felt.

Magnificent work, congratulation!

I just adjusted my ghost DSP of Cinema in passing the central gain of 2 Db to + 3 Db , as you.

Just a small remark:
I weighed down the functioning of my hurdy-gurdy computer to dedicate to the parameter setting of Meridian by installing it the setup "dotNetFx35".
It became very slow.
It is not important, because I know how it works now.
I am going to uninstall it and to make, if need a the next time, Tweak on the computer of my office.

As you have of big technical resource, you have no solution for 7.1.
I make fun, although...

Philippe

Hi George - Thought I'd add my 10 cents worth. IMHO - there is a HUGE difference with a total DSP environment-tried it on a G68d & now I've just got my V6, played several well known albums & movies etc & applied the tweak - by jove! to me it was jaw dropping, on the fullness of the sound not just "louder" but explicitly more detailed. Bless you for giving this gem to us mate!
Shame we have no comments from the Mothership....

P.S several folks have mentioned this "bug" with Trifield - er, what exactly is the problem??


Regards

Will