Meridian Unplugged - Powered by MrTechGuy.co.uk Forums Discussion Meridian - Systems CES 2010 speculation thread

Imagine if Meridian had released the following fictional Press Release. I wonder how much trouble and explanations would they have saved themselves?????????

This is just the "bones" of a release. It would need a lot of polishing before final release

a) At CES, Meridian announces its Brand New Surround Processor, the “961”

b) The 961 has been newly designed from the ground up as a new Processor to be able to deal with the far higher bit rates and increased number of channels that are available from today`s Bluray and High Def sources. The Audio Source world has moved on very significantly in the thirteen years since the introduction of Meridian`s acclaimed 861 Processor in 1997 when the primary Digital Sources it had to deal with were 2-ch CD sources and the (still in its infancy) DVD

c) This ground up redesign has also allowed Meridian to include the latest version of its Apodizing / Upsampling filter. This builds upon the already critically acclaimed Apodizing Filter in Meridian`s Flagship 808.2i CD Player. The increased Processing Power now available within the new 961 architecture has been complemented by even further Fine Tuning and Listening Tests to allow us to achieve even higher levels of Audio Performance and Musical Enjoyment than previously available. It goes even further towards making CD and other 16/44 material sound like High Res 24/96 sources

d) The new Card and Backplane Architecture of our 961 also allows us to offer 8-Channel Processing and Management of the growing number of Bluray 7.1 High Def Audio Sources out there. Each channel is also Upsampled to 24/96 before output

e) In recognition of the continued loyalty and support of Meridian`s User Base, we will be offering all existing 861 Users the ability to Trade-Up to this brand new Processor for 60% of its Retail Price. This very substantial discount should encourage all existing 861 owners to trade-up to the next level of Audio Performance. This is also another example of how Meridian looks after its long-term users by allowing them to Upgrade to the next level of Audio Performance at such a substantial saving.

f) No doubt, it will offer even further encouragement that Meridian will maintain and support its Users at the highest level of Audio Performance without them having to incur full retail prices at each necessary stage of Product Redesign

With respect to features, what does the 861V6 bring to the table. As I see it three things:

1. Speakerlink input for connection to the 808.3 and Sooloos 2.1.
2. Speakerlink output
3. MMHR 7.1 discrete input from the HD621

If you are not planning on buying an 808.3 or Sooloos 2.1 you don't need No. 1. If you do not have DSP speakers or the DSP speakers you do have don't have Speakerlink, you don't need No. 2. Do you really "need" 7.1 discrete? If not, you don't need No. 3.

I don't think the upgrade is about feature set. It's about better performance. I think that if Meridian could have gotten better performance with the old architecture, which after all was conceived twelve years ago, they would have. It sure would have made life easier for them.

So the underlying question is do you want better performance, and if so, how much is it worth to you. Meridian is about pushing the envelope, not adding features. I think many have lost sight of that fact.

Brilliant PR copy, Ronnie, and also very persuasive. Now can you please do the same for the 808.3?

Frank, you are also persuasive but we have not had what you say about performance actually confirmed by Meridian. There have been rumours from a variety of sources but no firm shout that a new benchmark in performance has been achieved. I make the comparison with the launch of the 808.2 and 7200s two years ago.

I bow to Ronnie's PR skills.

Ronnie, a rather good presentational rewrite there!

Frank, absolutely agree. The same points could have been made about the 808 18 months ago.

808...plays a CD
808.2...plays a CD.

So what's the point in upgrading?

Clearly, we are all aware now of what a step change to sound quality Meridian made by the addition of apodising, so why is the same point being lost on so many about the possibility of the v6 sounding better than the v4? (even if the v6 had no additional functionality?)

I can't believe the level of discontent over the new models. It's just not realistic to expect that any given piece of kit can be upgraded ad infinitum. And this false choice between a hideously expensive upgrade or being left with a box whose residual value has gone down the crapper? Nonsense. Unless we limit ourselves to the throwaway �300 Yamaha mentioned in another thread, we are going to see substantial �/$/� depreciation in any of our high end kit. It's a fact of life.

And did anyone, when weighing up the purchase of their 861v4 really buy it with >50% of the purchase rationale being that it could always be upgraded? Surely sound quality was the major factor in making the purchase? And is that sound quality not just as good now as it was a month ago before this whole sorry spectacle unfolded?

Time to calm down. There are a whole lot more things to worry about in life than this false dilemma of wealth.


George

George
Don't forget that neither 861v6 Press Release nor the new v6 Data Sheet

a) Even mentions the EXISTENCE of Apodizing!!! or

b) Says that the new Version of Apodizing could be even better than what is in the 808.2

Given the Car focus around here recently, the above omissions are akin to introducing a new Car and then forgetting to include what Engine Size / Power Rating is in it

Or that that it can go round corners faster than any previous car!!!

Two fairly important omissions IMHO

Yes, that was what I was "driving" at.

Did you remove a post about the 808.2 and 7200 data sheets? Here is a quote from that for the the 808.2:

"Product highlights
Highest quality CD player ever offered by Meridian
Unique new proprietary filter with ‘apodizing` performance realises the promise of Compact Disc"

This was not exactly diffident.

And I see that the current data sheet for the 7200s is substantially revised from the original, and downplays its particular breakthroughs. If it will be helpful I will quote at length in another post.

My point is merely that Meridian have not proclaimed breakthroughs for the new 808.3.

.

Well, if the V6 doesn't provide any performance improvements over V4, then the upgrade decision will be straightforward: Is 7.1 discrete worth $16,000 to me?

Does anyone seriously believe that the V6 won't sound better than the V4? Does anyone seriously believe that Bob and friends have just been doodling around on the back of a napkin and decided that the new logo on the front of the box will do?

I have no problem with Meridian deciding that it needed to start again with the 861 (though why not, as Ronnie suggests, give it a different 800-series moniker - the 865?)

However, I see three big problems with the trade-in:

1) The timescale. Previous 861 upgrades were on-going, so customers did not feel "bullied" into upgrading. Ending the trade-in in July is just ludicrous.

2) Available cards: It seems to me that 861 owners with certain card configurations may not be able to swap their 861v4s for v6s without losing some functionality. As things stand, according to the 861v6 data sheet, there is no phono card, no balanced digital input card, no balanced analogue input card, no component video switching card, etc. etc. The whole point of the 861 was to cater for individual circumstances? What should 861v4 owners do if they cannot replace all of the functionality of their "customized" 861v4 by the end of July?

3) The cost for the upgrade in the US. I'm sorry, but I don't think that our Hikers over the Pond are whinging. The differential is so huge, some (many?) of them will be flying to the UK, staying in a top hotel, doing the upgrade over here, paying import duty in the US, and having change vs. doing the upgrade at home. The differential is way more than currency hedging; it violates the principle of an efficient market.

A fourth fcuk up is the lack of an OE12 replacement, but it is mitigated to a small degree by the availability of the AC12. An extra �2000 for Meridian's premium customers with 7.1 digital theatre investments seems pretty dumb though. Like buying seven replacement 8ks (or even 5k2s) with SpeakerLink inputs is really an alternative.

A fifth fcuk up is to lump v3 and v4 owners in the same basket (for obvious reasons).

All I can suggest is that 861 owners strike good deals with their dealers. Let's face it, dealers will have to recognize that if they don't do something for their best customers, those customers may well consider they don't want to stick with Meridian any more.

Everyone,

In reading through all the recent posts, there are, predictably, a wide gamut of opinions about the trade-in program. I don't usually frequent boards like this because as a dealer posting in this kind of debate usually just leads to trouble.

My main purpose here is simply to provide accurate information. So while I would love to write a diatribe about how unfair some of the comments are to Meridian, that would only come across as self-serving or biased. And actually, I wouldn't love it.

All I ask is that people consider that Meridian is a company that cares deeply about the quality of its products and its user base. I have been in the industry a long time and I promise you that Meridian is a rare company. I think that's why all of you own their products and participate in these discussions.

Last, the 861v4 is a great product. It doesn't sound any worse today than it did before v6 was announced. If the trade-in program doesn't make sense for you personally, be happy to have one of the best processors on the planet. If you can afford the upgrade, believe it benefits you, and want to support Meridian in making future upgrades to their product line, then I believe the trade-in program is fair for most people. If you have special circumstances, talk to your dealer. But as a dealer who knows how expensive it is to stay in business and support all of you, please be nice to us too! :o)

Michael

www.audiohigh.com

I was sorry to lose the balanced analogue input card as an option in v6. I spoke with Richard Hollinshead (Meridian's head of engineering) about this and he said there is very little call for such a card. Our store does a lot of high-end two-channel work, so for us and many of our clients it's important. Richard said there might be a way to modify v6 to accept balanced analogue that would sound even better than the old input card. If this card is important to you, please let me know. The more people who ask for it the more likely we can push this engineering effort forward.

Some other cards (such as video) were removed to improve sound quality. Some, for other reasons. If there are cards (whether older cards no longer supported or cards that have never existed) that people think are important, please let your dealer know so we can get these requests to Meridian.

Thanks,
Michael

www.audiohigh.com

I will need to wait what the Dutch distributor will make for deal.

If the dealer does not need to send the unit back to Meridian and can sell it on:

Trade in my 861 with IA00, IE42 and OE12

Than asking money for: 2 x OA13, IA45 and ID20 for the new owner (new price like 3950 Euro for like 1/3rd the price)
So dealer drops his profit, but can sell on the 861 v4, and see what he makes out of that.

Useless plan if the dealer trades in 10 units, but i think my dealer will have more than 1 customer with a 861

I will see what happens