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#272197 - 2018-01-23 14:30 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Hector]
Registered: 2005-09-10
Posts: 310
Steve M Offline
Hitchhiker
Steve M Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2005-09-10
Posts: 310
Loc: South Australia
Folks,

[Back in early 2017] While we were all waiting patiently on the release of the 218 9 months ago, I looked closely at the Bluesound Node 2 as an MQA alternative decoder to the 218. However my research led me to finding that the internal MQA certified DAC only fully unwraps MQA files for the analogue outputs of the Node 2. There is internal MQA software doing the unfolding.

That shut down any idea of me buying it but is it is a great Streaming product for anyone wanting to add MQA decoding capabilities to an analogue sound system.

The link to the original post I made at the time in April last year follows; Bluesound Node 2 MQA Decoder

There is also a link in the post which answers some of the questions in this thread and is definitely worth reading, so I have also copied it directly here; Bluesound Node 2 MQA Capabilities

Cheers,

Steve M


#1: 8000s, 5500HC, 8000s, 861v8, 800Dv4, HD621
#2: 6000s, 6000C, 5000s, 6000s, 568.2mm, 598DP, 511
#3: 5500s, 5000C, 5000s, 561, 800v3, 518
Edited by Steve M; 2018-01-24 10:40.
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#272199 - 2018-01-23 16:00 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Steve M]
Registered: 2007-05-19
Posts: 978
JobSeeker Offline
Pan-dimensional being
JobSeeker Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-05-19
Posts: 978
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
As far as I know, the 218 does the same? Or am I misunderstanding something? I own both.


Marantz SR7011 AV Receiver + Bluesound Node 2
M218 + DSP3200
Laptop + Explorer 2
Roon (ROCK NUC)
CD ripping + NAS via Vortexbox
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#272200 - 2018-01-23 16:04 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Steve M]
Registered: 2007-02-06
Posts: 678
Jon Raines Online content
Paranoid android
Jon Raines Online content
Paranoid android

Registered: 2007-02-06
Posts: 678
Loc: Peterborough, UK
Folks,

While we were all waiting patiently on the release of the 218,

I thought this was readily available now.


596, 504, 568.2mm, 562v2, 551, DSP5Ks smileys+3dB, DSP5.5kHC smiley, DSP420's, DSP33s, DSW1500, Samsung 52", Sky Q, 3x512, 3xKef ceiling speakers, 2xMSR+custom keys, Mac Mini, Modded Edge v1.6, ATV2, vMSR, Amazon FireTV4k. Oppo 203 next
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#272201 - 2018-01-23 16:18 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Jon Raines]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,191
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,191
Loc: Midlands, UK
Steve M refers to his post of April 2017. I was also originally confused, but reread his post for understanding.
218 is of course available now.
Hector


AV: Thorens TD160B, SME, ShureV15MK2, 500, 598, 861v4, DSP7200.1LR, DSP3300HC Samsung UE55, SkyHD.
DINING: MS600, AC200, DSP5200SLLR.
STUDY 504, SB Touch, 2x MD600, C15, 808.6, 5200SE, Mac & PC, Explorer v1, Prime+PS Grado GS1000i
HORIZONTAL: M80, MS200, Red Rose Spirit + Sonus Faber Toys
A capella to Zydeco
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#272205 - 2018-01-23 16:38 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Hector]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,191
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
Just seen this on the Bluesound site in answer to digital out question.

Quote:
All Bluesound Players come with a Burr Brown 24/192 on board DAC. When using TOSLink Optical out or COAX digital out on the NODE or VAULT, you are bypassing our DAC and no processing occurs.


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#272208 - 2018-01-23 17:26 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2007-05-19
Posts: 978
JobSeeker Offline
Pan-dimensional being
JobSeeker Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-05-19
Posts: 978
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
The thing is, if it were that simple, why did Bluesound have to add an option in settings as to whether or not the digital out was connected to an MQA or non-MQA DAC? Unless they removed that in the last software update. Must have a look, as my Node 2 has been out of use while I test a Lindemann Musicbook 20DSD (which,rumour us it, will become Roon Ready later this year though I’ve seen nothing published)


Marantz SR7011 AV Receiver + Bluesound Node 2
M218 + DSP3200
Laptop + Explorer 2
Roon (ROCK NUC)
CD ripping + NAS via Vortexbox
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#272234 - 2018-01-24 03:59 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: JobSeeker]
Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
Originally Posted By JobSeeker
The thing is, if it were that simple, why did Bluesound have to add an option in settings as to whether or not the digital out was connected to an MQA or non-MQA DAC? Unless they removed that in the last software update.
I can confirm that it is still there, Jobseeker. That is how I was able to select MQA DAC and get my 18 bits to recognize all the Tidal MQA files I sent them from dig coax outs. Which seems to conflict with what I read in both links that Steve M references here:

Originally Posted By Steve M
The link to the original post I made at the time in April last year follows; Bluesound Node 2 MQA Decoder

There is also a link in the post which answers some of the questions in this thread and is definitely worth reading, so I have also copied it directly here; Bluesound Node 2 MQA Capabilities
What is confusing is those discussions seem to indicate that - at least at that time - that the Node 2 would perform initial software MQA unfolding and send that to the digital outputs. Of course it would not have been subsequently fully rendered (unfolded) unless the external DAC was MQA compliant (so I assume this is the reason it did not satisfy Steve M’s needs).

BUT... such an initial software unfold (96/24) thru dig out should not be recognized by my 18 bit DSP’s. And this is what I experienced with many MQA files when I had selected external non-MQA DAC. This leads me to believe that perhaps there has been a firmware update such that when one selects external MQA DAC no unfolding at all occurs and the raw folded MQA file (44/24) appears at the dig outs. How else does one explain the current situation where ALL MQA files streamed from Tidal now play on my 18 bitters with external MQA DAC selected?

BUT... this is equally puzzling because how would an external MQA DAC take a raw folded MQA file and process it without an initial software unfolding prior to final rendering (2nd unfolding)?

So I’m no closer to understanding what’s happening than when I opened this thread!


Bottom: DSP5000/18, 500.2, Bluesound Node 2 (MQA)
On Top: (of DSP5000/18) Martin Logan LX16, Velodyne Optimum 10, Bluesound Powernode 2 (Full MQA)
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#272237 - 2018-01-24 07:41 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Nstzya]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,191
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
An MQA file is like any other file only it has MQA data hidden beneath the noise floor. It is backward compatible and will play on any system.
An MQA DAC will recognise the MQA file and decode it to its capability.
Only an MQA renderer requires the first unfold to occur first.

This is as I understand it, so your speakers should play the MQA file as if it were any music file.


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#272238 - 2018-01-24 07:45 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Nstzya]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,390
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,390
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
is there some confusion between unfolding and upsampling?

I believe that an original master 44.1/48k MQA encoded file when unfolded will remain at 44.1/48k unless it is subsequently upsampled which would lose MQA encoding.

If not upsampled, it will play on '18bit' DSP's, the difference being that MQA passthrough passes through an MQA stream that can be subsequently decoded in an MQA DAC, where as non MQA passthrough will have created a non MQA PCM stream, ie all the MQA encoded hints are unfolded back into 44.1/48k PCM.

If the original master was say 96/24 (albeit compressed to be 44.1/48k PCM compatible and thus playable on 18bit DSP's) , then that MQA stream would be unfolded to 96/24 PCM and not play on 18bit DSP's. No upsampling in traditional sense required per say as its part of MQA unfold rather than a separate (non MQA compliant) operation.

May be wrong about this.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#272355 - 2018-01-27 13:10 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
Yes, I am still confused - a bit. On just one issue. And apologize for taking my own thread off topic into MQA rather than streaming discussion, but at the risk of having my hitchhiker license suspended...
How does an external MQA DAC fully render a raw unprocessed 44/16 MQA file to 24/192 without an initial software unfold?


Bottom: DSP5000/18, 500.2, Bluesound Node 2 (MQA)
On Top: (of DSP5000/18) Martin Logan LX16, Velodyne Optimum 10, Bluesound Powernode 2 (Full MQA)
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#272356 - 2018-01-27 13:14 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Nstzya]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,191
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
An MQA DAC unfolds and renders the whole thing to its max capability, an example of which is the Explorer 2.

Renderers only render, Dragonfly as an instance.


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#272357 - 2018-01-27 13:14 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Nstzya]
Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,674
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,674
Loc: North London, United Kingdom
Because an MQA DAC is usually capable of performing the full unfold and render process.

And it will never render to 24/192, it will render to analogue since the render/DAC process is (or should be) integrated and inseparable.


Various DSP speakers and Meridian processors
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