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#272085 - 2018-01-20 13:12 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Mr Meridian]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,191
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,191
Loc: Midlands, UK
Agreed George also my experience. Hard to differentiate 518 22 bit out to 18 bit 5Ks compared to 96/24 5Ks.
Hector


AV: Thorens TD160B, SME, ShureV15MK2, 500, 598, 861v4, DSP7200.1LR, DSP3300HC Samsung UE55, SkyHD.
DINING: MS600, AC200, DSP5200SLLR.
STUDY 504, SB Touch, 2x MD600, C15, 808.6, 5200SE, Mac & PC, Explorer v1, Prime+PS Grado GS1000i
HORIZONTAL: M80, MS200, Red Rose Spirit + Sonus Faber Toys
A capella to Zydeco
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#272104 - 2018-01-20 19:55 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Hector]
Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
Funny we should slide off topic onto the 518. One came up on eBay in USA just this week and I got sniped in last minutes and couldn’t get logged on in time. Lucky guy. I wanted to see what it can do. (Anyone looking to part with theirs? A dealer’s got one on eBay at $699 which is WAY over market. The auction went for $280...)

Back on topic, it’s all coming back to me 18, 22, dithering, etc. and that it will accept and truncate 24 bit. But not the 24/96 this Bluesound should be outputting if it’s unfolding as it does. In fact there are several MQA titles that simply stay silent and don’t play. Presumably that’s the 24/96 unfolded stuff. What would the stuff that plays be then? 24/44? 24/48? Other?

There’s a support thread with this topic on the Bluesound support site that I have resurrected where their technical dept was looking into a technical issue with Tidal MQA files. Still waiting to hear. They aren’t as prompt as you guys.


Bottom: DSP5000/18, 500.2, Bluesound Node 2 (MQA)
On Top: (of DSP5000/18) Martin Logan LX16, Velodyne Optimum 10, Bluesound Powernode 2 (Full MQA)
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#272105 - 2018-01-20 20:08 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Nstzya]
Registered: 2009-10-13
Posts: 142
Fitcaz Online content
Hitchhiker
Fitcaz Online content
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-10-13
Posts: 142
Loc: SE England
VK - you can choose either unfolded MQA or pass through on the Bluesound for a seperate downstream MQA DAC


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#272108 - 2018-01-20 20:17 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Fitcaz]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,270
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,270
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Okay, so for 18-bitters, you can't decode to MQA Core (88/96k).


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#272136 - 2018-01-21 15:01 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
Followup with help from Bluesound Community.

Apparently the Bluesound Node 2 is having a technical issue with some of the MQA files it receives from Tidal, and in these cases simply passes along the raw MQA codec without any decoding to the digital outputs. This raw MQA 24/44.1/48 bitstream can be recognized by my 18 bitters and still processed to a useful audible signal - albeit not MQA decoded nor rendered. From what I understand, this result will still be better than “CD quality” however. So an unfortunate technical problem turns out to be fortunate in my case.

Also, this poster seems to indicate that if I elect the External MQA DAC option, it will send the same raw MQA data stream out the dig output. That would be great for when they resolve their technical issues, but doesn’t seem correct... as I thought all MQA devices did at least the core decoding before sending to an external MQA DAC. In fact, I thought I read somewhere that it was a requirement from Meridian that the raw MQA codec can NOT be digitally output?


Bottom: DSP5000/18, 500.2, Bluesound Node 2 (MQA)
On Top: (of DSP5000/18) Martin Logan LX16, Velodyne Optimum 10, Bluesound Powernode 2 (Full MQA)
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#272139 - 2018-01-21 15:49 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Nstzya]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,191
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
Not sure that’s correct, it seems your getting an undecoded file at the digital output if you select the external DAC option. This would still need an MQA DAC to decode it, but will allow files to play, undecoded, on your speakers.
A great option to use on those speakers.


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#272142 - 2018-01-21 16:04 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
Oh would that it be so! But I am still stymied about what exactly is coming out the dig outs when I elect external MQA DAC. Again, I prob need a MQA primer for dummies, but it is my understanding that an external MQA DAC can only process Core MQA. Is that not the case? Can an external DAC process raw MQA bitstream without a software initial unfolding to Core? And secondly, doesn’t MQA licensing prohibit outputting digitally anything other than Core - i.e. no raw MQA bitstream output digitally?


Bottom: DSP5000/18, 500.2, Bluesound Node 2 (MQA)
On Top: (of DSP5000/18) Martin Logan LX16, Velodyne Optimum 10, Bluesound Powernode 2 (Full MQA)
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#272144 - 2018-01-21 16:21 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Nstzya]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,191
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
As I see it (and I could be wrong) you are getting an un decoded MQA file on the digital out. That can be played on anything. A further decoder would decode it. Just my guess.
Does it play all files on your speakers that way?


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
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#272145 - 2018-01-21 16:45 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
Funny you should ask. I just came back to report that I had tried it both ways to just see what happens! Duh!

Well, I’m excited to report that every MQA file I tried - even those that didn’t play before - play with the external MQA DAC selected so it must in fact be outputting raw MQA bitstream! Even though there is a load of great hardware in this box going to waste, this still makes for a GREAT option for folks to breathe new life into legacy 18 bitters. And it will all be there for future use when these old boys finally die...

My only problem with this arrangement is click/pops between tracks. Gonna go search on causes/cures for that elsewhere, but any quick thoughts anyone?


Bottom: DSP5000/18, 500.2, Bluesound Node 2 (MQA)
On Top: (of DSP5000/18) Martin Logan LX16, Velodyne Optimum 10, Bluesound Powernode 2 (Full MQA)
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#272152 - 2018-01-21 17:26 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Nstzya]
Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,674
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,674
Loc: North London, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By Nstzya
Also, this poster seems to indicate that if I elect the External MQA DAC option, it will send the same raw MQA data stream out the dig output. That would be great for when they resolve their technical issues, but doesn’t seem correct... as I thought all MQA devices did at least the core decoding before sending to an external MQA DAC. In fact, I thought I read somewhere that it was a requirement from Meridian that the raw MQA codec can NOT be digitally output??
Are you using Tidal as your MQA source?

Tidal may be configured to unfold (partially process) MQA. This process may be done in the Tidal software or in the downstream hardware. If it is partially processed in Tidal it can be output as digital 24/96 but some files (e.g. Fragile by Yes) just won't stream in my experience. Only the downstream device can perform the rendering to analogue which gives full-fat MQA.

Originally Posted By Nstzya
My only problem with this arrangement is click/pops between tracks. Gonna go search on causes/cures for that elsewhere, but any quick thoughts anyone?
Are you using Tidal as your MQA source?

Using Tidal through Sooloos there seems to re-determination of the MQA capabilities of the various devices and this seems (in my experience using Tidal through Sooloos to an 818v3) to cause an occasional click between tracks. In your setup this may be causing the Bluesound to DSP5000 digital lock to be lost and you may be getting a louder click/pop as a result.


Various DSP speakers and Meridian processors
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#272156 - 2018-01-21 22:13 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless
Nstzya Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-10-31
Posts: 52
Loc: Indianapolis, USA
Hello Gianni,

Sort of... Yes I am streaming Tidal but doing so via BluOS which is Bluesounds control Ap OS. So it is Tidal modified. It ‘repackages’ and reformats Tidal, stripping out some of the desktop functions most notably the EQ and the desktop software MQA processing unfolding stage. It may also be the source of some of the issues working on my behalf.

I haven’t been able to find a solution to the pop/clicks in my searches. When left on its own to play a Tidal playlist, it pops/clicks every time it changes tracks. As Ian suggests elsewhere, this sounds to be related to digital noise while buffering/transitioning digital streams. Interestingly, if I skip tracks manually, there is no such noise...


Bottom: DSP5000/18, 500.2, Bluesound Node 2 (MQA)
On Top: (of DSP5000/18) Martin Logan LX16, Velodyne Optimum 10, Bluesound Powernode 2 (Full MQA)
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#272161 - 2018-01-22 11:04 Re: Bluesound Node 2 MQA works streamed to legacy 18 bit DSP5k! [Re: Nstzya]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,191
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,191
Loc: Midlands, UK
Hi Nstzya
As you experience clicks/pops between tracks when playing MQA material could this be an artefact of the BluOS as the system briefly unlocks and re-locks to the MQA source. I see this visually momentarily (but not audibly) on my SE speakers at the time you experience the click/pop.
Hector


AV: Thorens TD160B, SME, ShureV15MK2, 500, 598, 861v4, DSP7200.1LR, DSP3300HC Samsung UE55, SkyHD.
DINING: MS600, AC200, DSP5200SLLR.
STUDY 504, SB Touch, 2x MD600, C15, 808.6, 5200SE, Mac & PC, Explorer v1, Prime+PS Grado GS1000i
HORIZONTAL: M80, MS200, Red Rose Spirit + Sonus Faber Toys
A capella to Zydeco
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