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#270358 - 2017-12-01 09:22 Understanding DSP Speakers
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,347
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Until recently I hadn't given to much thought on how a Meridian DSP speaker worked. I knew that there were DACs, amps and comms boards involved. I understood that there were benefits for all of these things being together in the same place. e.g. great compatibility with components.

Having take my speakers apart and seeing how they are put together forced me to get a better understanding and although there weren't any big surprises it made things snap into place (like Trifield with the correct width settings).

One of the things this highlighted was that the amp (s) is connect to the speaker tweeters and cones by a thick black cable with a DIN type socket on the end. At least that is my assumption.

If that is the case, is there any technical reason why the components on the back-plane can't be housed in a box with the thick black cable being extended to run to the speaker. Do you lose SQ by having a longer cable? Could this approach allow all older DSPs to be upgraded to MQA with a single external box and an optional dummy back-plane with a hole for the cable? Could this hypothetical box be programmed to match a speaker type or would a separate box be required for each speaker type? I'm guessing that the 251 is a similar thing.

Cheers
Tom


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 561M, M33s, M1500, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#270363 - 2017-12-01 14:37 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,532
RobertW Online content
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Online content
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,532
Loc: Austria, Europe
Originally Posted By GMT
One of the things this highlighted was that the amp(s) is connect to the speaker tweeters and cones by a thick black cable with a DIN type socket on the end. At least that is my assumption.
The connection is NOT a DIN connector as it used in the HiFi industry. It's a much better connector, only the round shape is similar, so SQ is no issue here within the DSP.

Originally Posted By GMT
If that is the case, is there any technical reason why the components on the back-plane can't be housed in a box with the thick black cable being extended to run to the speaker. Do you lose SQ by having a longer cable? Could this approach allow all older DSPs to be upgraded to MQA with a single external box and an optional dummy back-plane with a hole for the cable? Could this hypothetical box be programmed to match a speaker type or would a separate box be required for each speaker type? I'm guessing that the 251 is a similar thing.
That already exists, it's a mono amp that is placed at the speaker wink
Yes, but it's hypothetical.

Here is some information as to why design a DSP speaker.
More of white papers.



861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#270365 - 2017-12-01 15:06 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,347
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Hi Robert

Thanks for the links. I'll have a good read on the weekend. But as a quick side question. Would my DSPs sound different if the back-plane was outside of the speaker?

Cheers
Tom


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 561M, M33s, M1500, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#270369 - 2017-12-01 15:56 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,100
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Pan-dimensional being
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,100
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Not likely as a lot of DSP speakers, the bank plane area id essentially sealed off except for wire penetrations, from the acoustic side. Whatever outboard box you envision would have to include all the same electronics including crossovers to work. But, getting a DSP5000 to do MQA via an outboard box would be a rather expensive proposition for a speaker that is a such a bargain on the used market.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Theta Digital Cassablanca 4, 818v3, 218, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Boston Acoustics Lynnfield 500L series 2, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Personal System #2 F80.

Crestron control and multi room audio via Meridian 258 amplifiers.
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#270371 - 2017-12-01 16:13 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,720
MI' Offline
Knows where his towel is
MI' Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,720
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi Tom,

The connector is a "Bulgin" type connector used by Meridian since 100 series electronics and in their active speakers, since the M1 (and Quad). It does look a little like a DIN connector

Regards I


Under review
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#270377 - 2017-12-01 17:09 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: MI']
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,347
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Thanks Bruce and Ian

- Bruce my question was theoretical rather than practical. i.e. would the sound change if the back-plane was fully recreated in an external box and then connected to the speaker with the a "Bulgin" (thanks again Ian!) type connector? Rather than would it be cost effective etc.

Cheers
Tom


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 561M, M33s, M1500, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#270380 - 2017-12-01 17:22 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,720
MI' Offline
Knows where his towel is
MI' Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 1,720
Loc: United Kingdom
I imagine sound would not change, but overall volume of cabinet could be reduced.

Regards I


Under review
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#270381 - 2017-12-01 17:27 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: MI']
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,313
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,313
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Isn't this similar to what Meridian did/was going to do with some on walls? Not sure if they ever saw the light of day.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#270388 - 2017-12-01 21:37 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 83
Ogri Offline
Mostly harmless
Ogri Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-05-04
Posts: 83
Loc: London, UK
How about having a play with a minidsp unit, digital crossover and room correction.

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#270402 - 2017-12-02 12:51 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: Ogri]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,347
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Sounds interesting Ogri - what exactly are you suggesting and why?

Cheers
Tom


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 561M, M33s, M1500, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#270529 - 2017-12-07 07:53 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 645
Rodney Gold Offline
Paranoid android
Rodney Gold Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 645
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
I hacked an old set of DSP6000's only using the power amps and most of the drivers (used a different tweet and midrange) but replacing the DSP and crossovers etc with a miniDSP 4x10... it really didnt work wonderfully .. leaving the speakers stock was better.
I see you use ROON .. if you want to mess around with parametric eq and or room correction , you have the tools built into their DSP engine.. you will get far better improvements merely taking out the bass peaks than you will ever get with removing the electronics and making them external


Roon/Tidal, SBT, Twin Devialet D premiers, Vivid Audio Giya G1 Spirits, dedicated and treated room.
Meridian gear: 568.2mm and DSP5000's acting as TV speakers.
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#270533 - 2017-12-07 09:25 Re: Understanding DSP Speakers [Re: Rodney Gold]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,347
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Thanks Rodney - I'm trying to understand if there would be a difference in sound if the DSP internals were removed into an external box and was wondering if this was a better approach towards upgrading speakers i.e. could the legacy speakers that are not suitable for upgrade be made MQA compliant if the electronics were stored outside of the speaker. Could you choose to have the DACs in an 8000 put through a 5200 etc whilst being supported by Meridian. I'm not looking to make any physical changes to my speakers but thanks for the suggestion. I will play with the ROON settings.


Cheers
Tom


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 561M, M33s, M1500, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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