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#270325 - 2017-11-29 21:50 Projector light-spill
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
We bought our first projector just before we moved out to Italy, we got our lovely 2.35 screen installed then fired up the first film; A Bug's Life, if I remember. A glorious 2.35 image.

I looked askance as the light from the PJ was falling on the wall & not just on the screen. I'd read a fair bit about PJs etc prior to buying & reading about the various zooms / lens memories etc lead me to expect that a 2.35 image would be just that; all light falling upon the screen & a black wall behind. No such luck.

I bought the X70-R ex-dem from a guy who seemed to know his way around a PJ so I mentioned it to him & he explained that that's the way they work. A bit disappointing, but that's life.

Then, oddly, a month or two later, the light-spill stopped & all light from the PJ fell upon the screen with none on the surrounding wall. I had done nothing to any settings that might explain it; it just happened. This continued for a good couple of years; so long in fact that I'd forgotten all about the light spill. Then it came back for ONE NIGHT then went away again for some time then came back & is still here.

Anybody any idea what's happening? At no point have I done anything to the PJ that might affect its output as my understanding is that it isn't controllable by the end user. Obviously I prefer the light falling on the screen alone & not the wall behind but I don't know how to achieve that, if indeed it is possible to do so. Any guidance very much appreciated, as ever.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5000C, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#270326 - 2017-11-29 22:08 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,378
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,378
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Hi Marcus
Are the viewing conditions always the same? i.e. same levels of lightness in the room? How about the films? Have you tried to see if different films have different results. Does the rest of the image on screen seem OK? No blurring etc?


Cheers
Tom


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 5200s, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#270327 - 2017-11-30 01:36 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 403
Akimo Offline
Hitchhiker
Akimo Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 403
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
Have you noticed a change in fan noise when the light spill change occurs?


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, Prime+PS
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#270328 - 2017-11-30 06:22 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Hi Tom. Lighting conditions always the same; blackout curtains on doors & external shutters on windows. This is an effect that has been consistent for years & then changed & changed again, so it isn't software related.

Increase in fan noise? No, I haven't noticed that Akimo but then I virtually never notice the fan noise anyway.

Perhaps I could have been clearer; when I get the light spill, the 'light' from the PJ is 16x9 in shape, so a TV broadcast will fill the screen vertically with the usual unused space to the L&R of the 'Scope screen. Watching a 2.35 film will fill the screen with image, but the 'light' is still 16x9 in shape, so light falls on the wall above & below the screen. We have the wall painted dark green so it isn't too intrusive but it robs us of some contrast & just isn't as satisfying.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5000C, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#270329 - 2017-11-30 08:48 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,409
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,409
Loc: South Wiltshire, UK
Are you saying that, for a 2.35 format film the areas above and below the image have suddenly become bright instead the usual black bars? I’m not sure what could cause a change like that. The only settings I’m aware of that may cause that sort of change on the JVC are the ‘Mask’, ‘Aspect’ and possibly ‘Anamorphic' settings. Any of these been accidentally changed. I suppose changes to analogous settings on the player could also mess things up.


Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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#270330 - 2017-11-30 09:40 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Cliff.]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 677
Chris G Online content
Paranoid android
Chris G Online content
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 677
Loc: Newbury, UK
The only thing I can think of is the bulb output changed. If the hours are getting on a bit, it is possible the arc shifted position and is now making better contact meaning it is now brighter than it was. I occasionally get a flickering on my JVC HD350 and to resolve I put the bulb into high output mode for a few minutes. This causes the bulb to find a new arc point which it settles on.

Another thing you can check is the black level calibration. If you have such a tool available, check to see what the black level looks like when you have the light spill versus not. Might help identify whether your bulb is outputting more (in which case black level shouldn't change relative to the output) or if the brightness control got nudged or is playing up in some way.

I'm about out of ideas for the moment.


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#270331 - 2017-11-30 09:47 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Chris G]
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,409
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,409
Loc: South Wiltshire, UK
I suppose acidentally moving to 'high output' 3D mode is another possibility although you should have noticed an increase in fan noise


Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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#270332 - 2017-11-30 10:38 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Cliff.]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,378
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,378
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Hi Marcus

Does the image quality seem to be the same?

Thanks
tom


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 5200s, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#270333 - 2017-11-30 11:02 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Quote:
Are you saying that, for a 2.35 format film the areas above and below the image have suddenly become bright instead the usual black bars?
Yes, that's it exactly Cliff. Not bright exactly, but 'lit'.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Image quality seems unaffected Tom with the light spill or without.

For clarity, do others with 'Scope screens see light falling above & below their screens watching a 2.35 film?

As for changing the settings, that's something I just NEVER do, for fear of messing something up! I suppose it's plausible that some gremlins might have re-set something during turn off / power cut or something. I'll have a look later at the settings suggested here. A few months ago I'd decided that the bulb was on its last legs so fitted a new one. The old one had done 2,264 hours but I run it in High lamp mode so thought it might be done for. The new one looked...exactly the same so I may have been premature with the change.

But, we were getting a couple of years with no light spill when the old bulb was still young, so it can't be that.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5000C, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#270334 - 2017-11-30 12:51 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,409
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,409
Loc: South Wiltshire, UK
Assuming the bulb is not playing up, It suggests to me that you have inadvertently modified a setting which increases overall image brightness. But, if you are seeing no difference in image quality that’s also difficult to reconcile. Have you tried the various picture mode settings via the buttons on the remote (and also toggled through the User settings via the remote button)? It’s possible you have moved to a different user mode via an inadvertent button press.

I would also have a look at the black & white levels using a calibration disc (especially since you have changed the bulb). If you don’t have a disc, you can download and burn one from here.

On the black level test, only flashing bars above Reference Black (16) should be visible. If you can see 16 and below, your brightness is set too high.


Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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#270335 - 2017-11-30 14:42 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Cliff.]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 677
Chris G Online content
Paranoid android
Chris G Online content
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 677
Loc: Newbury, UK
Yes, with my scope screen I get a tiny bit of light bleed but its really only ever noticeable when the onscreen content is very very dark anyway. The black areas outside the scope screen never change luminance.

I wonder if your playback device is adjusting the black level. Would be easy to verify by examining it on your TV. If the black bars also gained output on the TV, then your PJ is just fine.


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#270346 - 2017-11-30 21:46 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Chris G]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
OK... I've been into uncharted territory & actually delved into the menus...

This is the SP as I found it. Hopefully the settings will mean more to the wiser folk on here than they do to me.

Picture Adjust:

Dark Level: 0
Bright Level: 4
Picture Mode: Cinema
Colour Profile: Cinema 1
Colour Temp: Xenon 2
Gamma: A
All Picture Tones: 0

Advanced:

Colour Management: Off
Clear Motion Drive: Off
MPC Level: 2
Lens Aperture: -3
Lamp Power: High

Input Signal:

Aspect (video): 16:9
Mask: Off
Progressive: Auto
3D Setting: Auto

Installation:

Anamorphic: Off
Black Level: 0, but the cursor was hard-over to the left, so not sure if that is a neutral position.

Does that help anyone?

Thanks again for everyone's help to date.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5000C, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#270348 - 2017-11-30 22:48 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,378
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,378
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
I hope you're not log chopping as well today Marcus - that's too much danger in one day!


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 5200s, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#270350 - 2017-11-30 23:16 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,831
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,831
Loc: Norwich, UK
The fact is you are using a 16:9 projector to shine light onto a 2.35:1 screen, you will always get overspill.

The only way around this is with an anamorphic lens.


Not sure why you are noticing it more now than before though.


Actually, why is your 'Bright level' on 4?
I would drop this to 0 at least and see what happens, this is setting absolute black, so on any positive you are making the absolute black a lighter grey.


No Darling, I've had it months!
Edited by gIzzE; 2017-11-30 23:25.
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#270354 - 2017-12-01 06:45 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: gIzzE]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Tell me about it Tom!

Thanks for the tip re Bright Level. It's at 4 as that's the way it came; the place selling it said they'd set it all up so I've left well alone. I'm sure it needs setting up for each screen / location, so I'll fiddle with the Bright Level & some other settings & see where I get to. I can always go back if I mess it up.

It still doesn't explain why I sometimes get the (noticeable) light spill but more often don't. Bright Level may have somehow reset itself to that setting during a re-boot or some other gremlin-related episode.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5000C, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#270355 - 2017-12-01 06:47 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: gIzzE]
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,409
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,409
Loc: South Wiltshire, UK
I notice your lamp is in high mode. I thought that mode was used primarily for 3D to compensate for the reduced image brightness. Try normal lamp mode.

Edit:
Originally Posted By JVC Manual
Lamp Power

It is possible to change the brightness of the lamp.
(*) If continually used with "High", the lamp will become dark earlier.
(*) The more one lets the interior temperature of the device rise due to generation of heat, the less the level of tolerance against high temperatures.
(*) For about 60 seconds after the lamp is lit, the lamp cannot be switched off.
(*) This will be "High" when the "Picture Mode” is set to "3D". (for x70 and x90 models)
(*) This will be "High" when the "Picture Mode” is set to "3D", "Film" and "Cinema". (for x30 model)

Settings: Normal, High
Default= [Normal]

Normal: Normally this setting is chosen.(160W drive)
High: In a bright room, when the video is hard to see, this setting is chosen.(220W drive)


Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
Edited by Cliff.; 2017-12-01 07:49.
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#270357 - 2017-12-01 07:29 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Cliff.]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Cheers Cliff. We're away for a week now so I'll try that & the Bright Level when I get back.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5000C, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#270472 - 2017-12-04 17:11 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Cliff.]
Registered: 2009-11-29
Posts: 1,137
Shaun Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Shaun Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2009-11-29
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Isle of Man
I wasn't recommended to use High mode by Gordon no less of covergent AV

It all needs calibrating anyway!

Anamorphic isn't the way to go with Blu-ray unless you spend a tonne of cash!

Shaun


M owner since 207 CD player
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#270601 - 2017-12-09 20:40 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Shaun]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
I've since fiddled with various settings & found...

1) Black level: I haven't yet downloaded / bought a calibration tool. That's my next step.
2) Lamp in High mode: I toggled back & forth between High & Normal several times & found it to be a mixed bag. We are currently watching Deadwood on Bluray & the scene in question was a well-lit forest scene. The change was as might be expected; High mode made it look like a sunny day with a lot of punch to the image, Normal looked (relatively) like a cloudy day but with similar contrast. We decided to watch the following episode in Normal & didn't feel as if we were missing out. When I popped in a 2.35 movie, the light-spill was barely reduced.
3) Bright Level: Reduced it from 4 to 0 but found the change to be very modest. Light-spill affected only modestly, if at all.

So I'm not much further forward. The confusing thing is the erratic nature of the 'spill. I get the fact that the PJ is pumping out a 16:9 image, but to have had years of no light-spill followed by months of light-spill, then reverting again is odd. I get that some reset / gremlins / inadvertent button press might have fiddled with some settings but I can't quite find a solution.

I'll get myself a proper calibration tool & report back.

Are Mulder & Scully still taking commissions?


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5000C, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#270624 - 2017-12-10 21:36 Re: Projector light-spill [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,503
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
I should perhaps mention, in case it means something to somebody, that the PJ is just over 6m from the screen. I think that might be why the thing was in High lamp mode.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5000C, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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