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#269851 - 2017-11-14 17:10 Improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5
Registered: 2009-08-09
Posts: 42
Nav Garayal Offline
Mostly harmless
Nav Garayal Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2009-08-09
Posts: 42
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I recently purchased a new MP3 player - Astell Kern Ultima SP1000 and Audeze LCDi4 earphones. The combination is fantastic, especially the audeze earphones which have introduced new details to recordings I thought I knew very well.

This led me to listen to the same recordings using my main Meridian system (808v5 & DSP7200SE) via Sooloos or CD replay. Rather worryingly, my main system was unable to replicate the nuance which my portable rig could dig out.

I know my room layout isn't ideal - the system is set up in a loft where the ceiling height slants 5m to around 2.5m and also has a glass patio running one length of the room. But still I am concerned by the loss of detail. Also, when seated my ear line is probably 50cm lower than the speaker tweeters.

I have experimented with the DSP speaker settings (corner, free standing, etc.) and free standing seems to give the best sound. Aside from having physical room treatment, is there anything else I can do with the DSP/Meridian trickery to compensate for the room? I am of course assuming the Meridian electronics are superior to that used in my portable rig.

Thanks


#1 808v5, DSP7200SE, MD600, Rega RP10/Aria/Apheta, Nordost QX4, QB8, Frey2 cables, Panasonic 65EZ1000 OLED, Apple TV
#2 G95, B&W 805s speakers, Audioquest Rocket 88 cables, Pioneer KRP500A, Panasonic BDT330.
Other: M80, F80, Chord Hugo 2 DAC, Astell&Kern Ultima SP1000, Audeze LCD-XC, Audeze LCDi4, Nakamichi Dragon
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#269852 - 2017-11-14 17:22 Re: improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: Nav Garayal]
Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,587
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,587
Loc: North London, United Kingdom
The change from 818v2 to 818v3 was noticeable and significant (independent of the added MQA facility).

Not sure if the 808v5 to 808v6 upgrade was of the same magnitude but is that perhaps worth considering?


Various DSP speakers and Meridian processors
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#269855 - 2017-11-14 17:30 Re: improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
The most important addition - for me - was never designed as such, and is the provision of 192k inputs. It makes doing things like room correction at 192k possible without losing anything with a down-sample to 96k.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#269856 - 2017-11-14 17:35 Re: improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,296
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,296
Loc: Surrey, UK
@Joel
On an all analogue system I assume you mean ?
In a DSP speaker system the 192k input (on USB only) gets down-sampled to 96k. IIRC.

I thought there was an improvement on std res material when I moved from v5 to v6.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
Edited by ncpl; 2017-11-14 17:37.
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#269859 - 2017-11-14 18:02 Re: improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,098
Hector Offline
Knows where his towel is
Hector Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Midlands, UK
Originally Posted By Gianni
The change from 818v2 to 818v3 was noticeable and significant (independent of the added MQA facility).

Not sure if the 808v5 to 808v6 upgrade was of the same magnitude but is that perhaps worth considering?


The 808v5 upgrade to 808v6 certainly was of the same magnitude here. 5200SE with 808v6 are magic in my little compromised room.

Hector


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#269861 - 2017-11-14 18:08 Re: improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By ncpl
In a DSP speaker system the 192k input (on USB only) gets down-sampled to 96k. IIRC.
I'm not so sure. I've been working under the assumption that it's folded at the input card and unfolded in the speaker (which displays 176k or 192k), though we know that there are question marks there. My main reason for assuming this is an answer that Richard Hollinshead gave me:

I asked:
"Are you able to comment on how the changes for the 818v3 (vs. v2) will benefit RBCD and even "HiRes" tracks?"

In reply:
"818v3 will work better with almost any content, but the biggest improvement will be on 192kHz content with SE speakers."

Read what you will into that. I inferred encapsulation and restoration...


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#269862 - 2017-11-14 18:26 Re: improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2009-08-09
Posts: 42
Nav Garayal Offline
Mostly harmless
Nav Garayal Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2009-08-09
Posts: 42
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Thanks for the responses so far.

My portable rig comprises od DSD files, other high res files and CDs ripped as FLAC uncompressed.
My main system comprises od CDs, FLAC and also high res files on Sooloos.

Across all formats and media quality, there is a loss of detail for my main system which costs significantly more than the portable rig!

I have considered the 808v5 to v6 upgrade but decided to wait until after the 210 streamer is launched to see whether this will provide MQA to the DSP7200SE as well as being more family friendly with the promised wireless streaming etc.

I am wondering whether I can do something else within the 808v5/7200SE settings to improve the sound assuming the room constraints are causing the difference rather than a very expensive Meridian set up being bested by essentially an iPod!



#1 808v5, DSP7200SE, MD600, Rega RP10/Aria/Apheta, Nordost QX4, QB8, Frey2 cables, Panasonic 65EZ1000 OLED, Apple TV
#2 G95, B&W 805s speakers, Audioquest Rocket 88 cables, Pioneer KRP500A, Panasonic BDT330.
Other: M80, F80, Chord Hugo 2 DAC, Astell&Kern Ultima SP1000, Audeze LCD-XC, Audeze LCDi4, Nakamichi Dragon
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#269868 - 2017-11-14 20:13 Re: improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: Nav Garayal]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,296
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,296
Loc: Surrey, UK
I shared some thoughts recently on the improvements gained by improving power supply. I suspect this isn’t your issue here though.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#269869 - 2017-11-14 20:21 Re: improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,072
Ratbert Offline
Hooloovoo
Ratbert Offline
Hooloovoo

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,072
Loc: Europe
I would suspect you are likely to hear/notice subtle differences more easily through your Astell & Kern headphone setup compared to your 808 and DSP7200’s I think this is more down to the proximity of the headphones compared to the speakers rather than any inherent setup problem.

Russ


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#269901 - 2017-11-15 18:34 Re: improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2009-10-13
Posts: 129
Fitcaz Offline
Hitchhiker
Fitcaz Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-10-13
Posts: 129
Loc: SE England
I would expect a headphone setup to be appear "more detailed" than big speakers because, as already said, proximity of the drivers to your ears. However with your room setup I would expect the same detail to be leaving the speaker drivers. I assume you are listening at equal sound levels? That the room background noise is zero? Is there a difference in tone balance between the two systems? Have you tried adjusting the treble up on the room system to get "more" detail?


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#269918 - 2017-11-16 07:32 Re: improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,324
Ludwig Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ludwig Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,324
Loc: Europe
Referring to Joel's comment about 192, just to add a datapoint:

I asked RH and JB how 192 was transferred from 818v3 to SE speakers, and they said "by MHR". They had a chance to say "it isn't, it's downsampled" but they didn't. The speakers also show 192 when I input 192 to the 818v3 (via USB).

There has been speculation that there is overlap between MHR and MQA as technologies for moving high resolution around, but I am not in a position to judge that, and nor is anyone else outside Meridian.


Ex-moderator
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#269921 - 2017-11-16 08:05 Re: Improving the sound on DSP7200SE / 808v5 [Re: Nav Garayal]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,508
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Senior Shouting Officer
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,508
Loc: Austria, Europe
One important thing to check in the room to improve details and "trueness" are the "early/first reflections" >> ER
That appears at the closest surface next to your speaker like floor, side walls.
Also "ER" appears when the sound get reflected from the wall behind your sitting place and your ears.
The goal to avoid that ER is that the reflected sound should have a longer way (physical distance) as the direct way from the speaker to your ear.

The recommendation for the minimum difference is 3-5 ms that's about 1 to 1.7 m difference in length.
So larger is better.

Try it when possible, move your chair just for a test closer to the speaker (get away from the back and side wall from your hearing place) and move the speaker away from the side walls or bottom. Of course the stage is moving, but just try to here the detail and "trueness" of acoustic instruments - the color of that.

Don't listen to the bass and position of the artists/instruments, to make that true, you have to re-adjust your speaker-ear layout and absolute position in the room.


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