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#265695 - 2017-07-05 18:05 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: Jocke]
Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 466
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 466
Loc: Land van Maas en Waal, Netherl...
Would the linear PSU be making the difference compared to MS200 and MS600


System 1: MC200, 818v3, DSP7200SE
System 2: boxed (DSP5000.1, Monarchy DIP24/96, Squeezebox Duet.)
Office: MS200, STAX SRM-323II, SR303
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#265722 - 2017-07-06 20:45 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 132
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 132
Loc: Hässleholm, Sweden
I have now tested the 218 connected to my 7200SE. I played MQA-tracks and compared them to PCM 96/24 (I tested more than 25 tracks). The MQA-tracks are as good as PCM96/24. One track "Take Five" is much better in the MQA version. I also compared some tracks MQA versus PCM 16/44. In this case the MQA-files are to prefere. After this test I return to play the same tracks through my 861 in Trifield. I can now say Trifield is much better whatever track you play. This test convinced me that I can use my 861 and get better quality than MQA in 2-channel stereo.


861v8+ID41,HD621,G98,Arcam P35,DSP5200SE,DSP5200HC, SW1600,DSP320, 2xMS600,2xMS200,2xDSP3200,AC200, Explorer2,2x218,AD88,Prime
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#265771 - 2017-07-09 14:43 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,272
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,272
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Of course Trifield with a full front DSP7200SE/DSP7200HCSE array properly setup is "better" than just MQA in 2ch, but I hope that we will see the MQA boards to the 861v8/9 this year so that we get the best of all worlds, Trifield+MQA in full, no need to choose one or the other...


Future ID80 with video owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> HD621 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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#265772 - 2017-07-09 15:44 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 591
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 591
Loc: Cologne, DE & Cheltenham, UK.
Originally Posted By HermanAtHome
...Trifield is much better whatever track you play...

Originally Posted By Crion
...Trifield...properly setup is "better" than just MQA in 2ch

"Better" ? Surely not. Different - yes - and perhaps more to your liking ? smile

2ch MQA, properly 'delivered' is a different signal than the same album, non-MQA, delivered through 3-ch (or 7.1-ch). Trifield clearly gives a 'wall-of-sound' type delivery, which is preferable to some.

MQA gives a de-blurred & theoretically more accurate - HiFi - true to the original - sound signal.

This is of course then all further complicated by the use of DSP & Room-correction etc, so apples-to-apples comparisons are impossible at the moment !

But... I'd always hesitate using the word 'better'.... smirk


Meridian : 861v8 + ID41 + HD621 + 218, 2*SE-update DSP8.2K's, SE-update DSP7200HC. Roon.
TAG McLaren : DVD32R-PSM192, T32R+DAB, 100x5R:10. B&W : 4*SCMS. Logitech : Squeezebox Touches & Duets.
Sim2 HT380 DLP, Panasonic TX-P60ZT60E, SKY HD+, SlingBox HD Pro, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Oppo BDP-103EU.
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#265784 - 2017-07-10 07:40 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: Rolski]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,415
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,415
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Originally Posted By Rolski
But... I'd always hesitate using the word 'better'... smirk
"always" or "often"? - I usually hesitate before using the word "always" (I think we can work out what you all meant) laugh

Personally - I prefer MQA vs. Trifield in my setup.

Cheers
Tom


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 5200s, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
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#265942 - 2017-07-14 22:05 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 132
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 132
Loc: Hässleholm, Sweden
Yesterday I had a listening session at my home to evaluate MQA-files. We were 5 persons listening to 218 connected to my 7200SE.

Nobody could say that MQA-files sounded better than PCM-files (96/24). Everybody said that the sound was equal between MQA and PCM-files.

After listening to around 25 tracks we changed to play the same tracks via ID41 and 861 in Trifield. Everybody preferred the Trifield sound.

After this test I am not sure that MQA is the best solution. All persons in the listening session have Highend systems at home.


861v8+ID41,HD621,G98,Arcam P35,DSP5200SE,DSP5200HC, SW1600,DSP320, 2xMS600,2xMS200,2xDSP3200,AC200, Explorer2,2x218,AD88,Prime
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#265943 - 2017-07-14 23:45 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 87
Mel_Moon Offline
Hitchhiker
Mel_Moon Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 87
Loc: GA, USA
Are you speakers set up for the best asthetics or the best sonics?

I find it interesting that 5 audiophiles can sit in the same room and agree on anything let alone be unanimous in the impression that there is no appreciable difference between MQA and non MQA tracks. To borrow a phrase from the movie Contact, are the rest of us suffering from some mass delusion?

In my room as well as my local dealer, the difference in sound quality goes from subtle to stark depending on the recording. I have to wonder if your 7200SE are either not set in the room correctly or if there is some other room interaction that is keeping them from imaging properly.

When they are properly positioned and set up, it should sound like the center channel is on when it is only in stereo mode. I would urge you to take a look at this. Trifield is a sound effect, and that doesn't always equate to sound quality.

In the end it really is whatever you prefer but, I think you are missing something set up wise.


861v8, 808v6, DSP5200SE, DSP7200.2HC, M6, QNAP TS451, 218 various other bits.
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#265945 - 2017-07-15 06:22 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,270
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,270
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
How loud were you listening? Was it "studio realistic"?

But I have to agree that setting up the speakers is critical. My own experience is that I need a room correction solution which works with MQA, because the room interactions are masking most of the benefits of MQA. But that solution does not exist.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#265952 - 2017-07-15 10:52 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2007-11-03
Posts: 502
Dollar2 Offline
Paranoid android
Dollar2 Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2007-11-03
Posts: 502
Loc: Durham, CT, USA
I have the same dilemma with respect to playing MQA or using room correction.

I've spent a week where I run my 8KSEs from my 218. I set the boundary to "wall" in the DSPs and drop the bass by 2.0 dB. While that is helpful for overall balance, it does not correct the imbalance in the bass itself.

I still find the presentation from the 218 to be very pleasing even with the bloated bass.

When going back to the ID41/861v8, the presentation is, well, correct, but not quite as involving. I also find that I need to drop the volume 3 or 4 points when using the 218 to match the level from the 861v8. I'm not sure why that should be the case.


Regards,
Bill

Sys 1: AC200, (2) DSP3200s, (4) P320is
Sys 2: 861v8+ID41, 218, (2) DSP8KSEs, DSP7200VCSE, (2) DSP5200s, Marantz UD9004, (2) JL Audio F113s,
Sys 3: 861v4+ID40, (2) DSP5200s, DSP5200HC
Sys 4: Prime HPA+PS, Focal Utopia
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#265957 - 2017-07-15 12:09 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: Dollar2]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,393
ncpl Online sleepy
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Online sleepy

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,393
Loc: Surrey, UK
Bill,
Depending on what preset you are using on the 861 and whether you have calibrated then you might see the 861 running a few db's lower than the 218 which has no volume adjustments (afaik).


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#265971 - 2017-07-15 17:08 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 132
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 132
Loc: Hässleholm, Sweden
If the position of the loadspeaker is so lmportant then I think that the difference between MQA-files and PCM-files is not big.

My room is about 65 square meters. The room correction in the 861 is almost zero. So I think the room is very good for music listening. When listening to music through my Prime I experienced the same quality for PCM and MQA-files. I had great expectations to MQA but today I don't think it is the final solution for digital music.


861v8+ID41,HD621,G98,Arcam P35,DSP5200SE,DSP5200HC, SW1600,DSP320, 2xMS600,2xMS200,2xDSP3200,AC200, Explorer2,2x218,AD88,Prime
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#265972 - 2017-07-15 17:33 Re: 218 evaluation / testing [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2007-11-03
Posts: 502
Dollar2 Offline
Paranoid android
Dollar2 Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2007-11-03
Posts: 502
Loc: Durham, CT, USA
Good point, Nick. I forgot to consider that. That is likely the cause.


Regards,
Bill

Sys 1: AC200, (2) DSP3200s, (4) P320is
Sys 2: 861v8+ID41, 218, (2) DSP8KSEs, DSP7200VCSE, (2) DSP5200s, Marantz UD9004, (2) JL Audio F113s,
Sys 3: 861v4+ID40, (2) DSP5200s, DSP5200HC
Sys 4: Prime HPA+PS, Focal Utopia
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