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#262864 - 2017-04-11 06:39 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,532
RobertW Online content
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Online content
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,532
Loc: Austria, Europe
Sorry Bruce, but that is not correct with the volume matching.
Volume on DSP above 87 to 99 is simply overload, means more then Full or "more then 0dB. Heavy distortions appear(to my ears)
The Casablanca have 0 to 73 and the Meridian have 0 to 87(full signal) volume range.

So it is NOT simply an offset, it's a ratio from 73 to 87.
For correct volumes matching you have to (refer to the ratio 73 to 87) calculate or made a table which volume from the Casablanca will fit to Meridian or opposite.

You can also work the virtual MRC (MCommand sw) and the command "set volume to.." VNnn. Or use the standard MRC and look for the table (not comfortable I know).

DSP show not the same volume is simply a synchronisation problem of the M-com or with the communication on the serial interface.

About RC, Trinnov is way ahead from all others, technical and finally then sound wise.

And G65 vs. Casablanca4 is not the same money level of course,
but M falls out for cinema fans.


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#262870 - 2017-04-11 11:52 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,100
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Pan-dimensional being
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,100
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Robert, As someone who has programmed control systems for twenty years, I am well aware of the commands to control Meridian systems.

I started with the numeric values as a way to get a benchmark for the programming. I tested with a sound level meter at a few points with DSP speaker displays showing 55, 65, and 75. At these levels, the channel balance was verified to be within 1dB. I have not checked it at every increment (yet) as it is a work in progress and my programming will be tweaked appropriately.

I almost never listen to my system at 87 or above so I have not yet checked at those levels. I never made a statement that my DSP speakers were not displaying the same volume, suggesting a comms problem. My statement was, that when using a control system where each DSP speaker would have its own discrete RS-232 connection, the channel balance would have to be achieved in the control program and each DSP speaker would display a different volume level based on the volume offsets determined by in room measurement.

Doing so, would not involve comms in any way. Any alternative will have its compromises, I am merely explaining what those are.

I chose to do the Casablanca first as like many here, I reside in the volume level in the analog domain camp which maximizes resolution. The Trinnov does it's volume level in the digital domain and we are all aware of what this does to resolution. I am also a Trinnov dealer and the Altitude 32 will be the next project to get similar testing.

My sound quality statement is based on in room experience with every version of the 861 that has ever existed so I am well aware of its sound and capabilities. I have demoed the same soundtracks literally thousands of times over the years and when I make a statement that one sounds better than another it is based on real in room demonstrations.

Taking on Theta and Trinnov as product lines requires significant investment of time and resources and are not taken lightly by me. My opinions here are based on real world experience and not on a data sheet or a visit to a hifi store where someone else's money has been spent.

Your assumption that my comparison was based on a G65 vs. the Theta and that was not a fair comparison is false for all the reasons covered above. In my system, the G65 is there for reasons that I would not discuss on a public forum and my focus has been on the 818, two channel, and MQA as these are the latest products in Meridian's product line.

In my room, the Dirac room correction was more effective, we will soon see what the Trinnov solution does and it will be reported here.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Theta Digital Cassablanca 4, 818v3, 218, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Boston Acoustics Lynnfield 500L series 2, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Personal System #2 F80.

Crestron control and multi room audio via Meridian 258 amplifiers.
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#262873 - 2017-04-11 12:24 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,532
RobertW Online content
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Online content
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,532
Loc: Austria, Europe
Hi Bruce, first of all, it's not my intentation to blame you or try to made some harm. Maybe, as I am not a native English speaken human, that's happened.

Anyway I want to apologies myself here if you have/had that feeling.

Reading your new post now that's include much more and also detailed info, explaining most of the items as your first post was misleading for me at least.


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#262874 - 2017-04-11 12:51 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: RobertW]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,100
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Pan-dimensional being
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,100
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
Thank you Robert as your post made me explain my findings in more detail, all to the benefit of those who read these forums.

We all well know the needs and concerns of the multi channel crowd here on the forums. I took on these projects in order to explore other solutions. No solution is ever perfect. I simply try to find the pros and cons of each and expose the compromises of each based on testing and application in the same room.

What I have found so far is based on over 200 hours of in room testing and programming and will probably take double that to finalize everything. In the end, I can provide a complete solution, not just a box.

I thank you for your input.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Theta Digital Cassablanca 4, 818v3, 218, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Boston Acoustics Lynnfield 500L series 2, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Personal System #2 F80.

Crestron control and multi room audio via Meridian 258 amplifiers.
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#262885 - 2017-04-11 15:47 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 687
Mtns Offline
Paranoid android
Mtns Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 687
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Robert and Bruce -thank you both.


James
NC1: 861v4+ID40, 218, MS200 (to outdoors), DSP8000SE (upgraded). 5500VC, 5500s, Hsu Research ULS15x2, DirecTV, Oppo BD103, QNAP251, Roon
NC2-see FL 2 with Triad Silver Speakers

FL1: G61R, 218, DSP8000SEs, 5500HC, DSP6000s, MS600, DirecTv, Oppo BD103, QNAP469, Roon
FL2: Marantz 7005, M60s, M60C, M33s, Oppo BDP-93, MS200, Roon
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#263375 - 2017-04-20 23:54 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 76
Mel_Moon Offline
Mostly harmless
Mel_Moon Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 76
Loc: GA, USA
I have watched this thread with intrest. So today, I gave CMB Integrations a call and asked Bruce about how his project was going. He convinced me to come up and see what was going on along with the promise of a Johnny Walker Blue on the rocks and something off the BBQ grill. When I got there, I could see that he has been busy with all the gear on the floor and two laptops running diagnostic programs. He put a few demo tracks on and I will have to say, the sound was quite incredible with his DSP's and the Cassablanca 4. It sounded equally good in stereo playng from a MC200 digital into the surround processor as it did playing DTS multichannel soundtracks. I can't wait to get a similar demo from the Trinnov when he has it ready. We sat there and talked about everything audio for a couple of hours. As promised, mesquite grilled chicken tenders and fine bourbon on the rocks topped off a great visit.


861v6, 808v6, DSP5200, DSP7200.2HC, QNAP TS451, MS600 various other bits.
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#263405 - 2017-04-21 13:05 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: Mel_Moon]
Registered: 2009-11-20
Posts: 55
OldDogCan Offline
Mostly harmless
OldDogCan Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2009-11-20
Posts: 55
Loc: New Mexico, USA
I'm told that Johnny Walker Blue is wonderful, but it's not bourbon.


ODC

Theater: C61R, DSP5200SEs,420s,33s, NHT amp/subs, HD621, 218, OPPO UDP-203, JVC RS500U, Fire TV, Apple TV, DirecTV, Mac Pro 2010+, MF V-LINK II, REGEN and iFI conditioners

Elsewhere: Roon w/RPi endpoints, Explorer², iFi nano iDSD BL, Audeze LCD-X, 598DP, 568.2mm, 565, DSP5000.2s, AudioEngine spkrs, M&K sub, Apple MBP, OPPO BDP-83,
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#263406 - 2017-04-21 13:22 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: OldDogCan]
Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 76
Mel_Moon Offline
Mostly harmless
Mel_Moon Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2016-06-18
Posts: 76
Loc: GA, USA
Sorry, scotch. Got my dark liquors mixed up.


861v6, 808v6, DSP5200, DSP7200.2HC, QNAP TS451, MS600 various other bits.
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#263409 - 2017-04-21 14:14 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: Mel_Moon]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,136
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Hector Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,136
Loc: Midlands, UK
Eashy mishtake to make, espeschially when lishtening to more than two shannel hic!!

Hector


AV: Thorens TD160B, SME, ShureV15MK2, 500, 598, 861v4, DSP7200.1LR, DSP3300HC Samsung UE55, SkyHD.
DINING: MS600, AC200, DSP5200SLLR.
STUDY 504, SB Touch, 2x MD600, C15, 808.6, 5200SE, Mac & PC, Explorer v1, Prime+PS Grado GS1000i
HORIZONTAL: M80, MS200, Red Rose Spirit + Sonus Faber Toys
A capella to Zydeco
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#263470 - 2017-04-22 17:51 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: OldDogCan]
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,808
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is
gIzzE Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 1,808
Loc: Norwich, UK
Originally Posted By OldDogCan
I'm told that Johnny Walker Blue is wonderful, but it's not bourbon.
Is that why it's wonderful?

I think I better run for cover. wink


No Darling, I've had it months!
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#264001 - 2017-05-08 00:03 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,100
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner Pan-dimensional being
CMB Integrations - Bruce Offline
Meridian Partner
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 1,100
Loc: Lexington, South Carolina, USA
I finally got to invest some more time on this project. I spent this afternoon taking in room measurements using an SPL meter. I made in room channel measurements using the AIX test disc and the 7.1 LPCM test tracks.

I started at level 55 indicated on the DSP's and took a SPL measurement of each speaker at the prime seating position and noted that they were in balance to the same indicated level. I then tried 2 step increments 57, 59, 61, etc. until reaching level 90 on the DSP's where a in room SPL of 85dB was indicated.

At every level increment change, each channel level was measured and stayed within 1dB measured of each other. Of interest was that the DSP's would not always measure exactly the same SPL at each level increment.

I suspect this has a lot to do with room interaction than a calibration issue. In all, I am happy with the results of the testing and control system programming that keeps it all in sync.

The sound is excellent and having HDMI switching, modern codec decoding, and 4K pass through is a big bonus. It is ready for anyone to stop in for a listen.


www.cmbintegrations.com

Personal System #1 Theta Digital Cassablanca 4, 818v3, 218, DSP8000.2SE, DSP7200SEHC, Boston Acoustics Lynnfield 500L series 2, Monitor Audio Silver 10, ATI 200WX5 Amp, JVC RS15, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen. QNAP TS-251 3TB
Personal System #2 F80.

Crestron control and multi room audio via Meridian 258 amplifiers.
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#265613 - 2017-07-02 08:02 Re: Alternatives to Meridian processors [Re: CMB Integrations - Bruce]
Registered: 2017-06-08
Posts: 9
HiFiSi Offline
Harmless
HiFiSi Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2017-06-08
Posts: 9
Loc: Bexhill on Sea, Sussex, UK
Hi Bruce,

Did you use an AC11 SpeakerLink hub to aggregate the control of the DSP's?

Simon

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