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#262040 - 2017-03-24 00:59 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: JerryL]
Registered: 2010-08-13
Posts: 275
GaryArthur Offline
Hitchhiker
GaryArthur Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-08-13
Posts: 275
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Hello All,

I have not posted here in over a year although from time to time I logged in to see what was going on. This site contains some of the brightest audiophiles with interesting posts and I've missed you all. After much soul searching and probing questions in early 2015 I became convinced that M was not going to enter the immersive audio world any time soon. I had become enamored with immersive sound after a few demos at Jan 2015 CES. After some research I came to the conclusion That Trinnov might have enough juice to get me to leave M. but as an audiophile since 1972 I had serious concerns. I need not have been. On December 31, 2015 I received my fully loaded Altitude32. And in April of 2016 when I knew I had made the correct call for me, I sold my 861 v8/HD621. If it had just been about music I would not have made the move but that would have been a mistake. Since I have always used analog speakers I am unable to comment on Ricks project but with the Altitudes versatility I believe he will like/love the results. If I wasn't an ocean and a continent away I would love to check the project out.

Here are some things that make the trinnov work for me:

1. Able to bypass the trinnov's DAC's on the two mains and use my Alpha DAC RS. When combined with RC and curve fitting and ability to save up to 30 presets. The two channel is stunning.

2. New life has been added to my 5.1 DVD-audio's by allowing me to up-mix to Auro-3D giving me an open immersive touch without betraying it's 5.1 roots. For example I have the DVD audio of The Beatles "Love" soundtrack from the Las Vegas show. It begins with a nice remix of "Because". Everyone that I have given this demo has been blown away. The chirping birds are lifted in elevation, the instrument and vocals envelope you and you are left with a big smile.

3. The RC software and curve fitting give tremendous strength no mater how many channels.

4. Atmos, Auro3d, DTS-X plus many up-mixes.

5. Many movie titles in native Atmos have become available. e.g. "Hacksaw Ridge" flames from throwers surround you, bombs annihilate you, and if your still alive bullets wiz past your ear. ie it's fun.

6. You can up-mix older movies to give them body.

I apologize for going on about Trinnov on a Meridian site because I was an M supporter for many years and I still have a fondness for their products. For my desires I feel like M abandoned me. I didn't want to leave them. And Rick good luck with your project. you were always a straight shooter.

Regards all,
Gary


My Kit: Trinnov Altitude 32,Oppo BDP 203, Sony 600es, Martin Logan Neoliths Mains with VTL Siegfried II's, ML CLX's, ML Renaissance, 5 ML Theaters,13 ML Vanquish, 6 ML Edges, 6 ML Axis' 8 Velodyne DD-18+'s, Pass Labs 600.8,Pass Labs 160.8, Pass labs 160.5, Bryston 14B-SST, 6B-SST,6 Bryston 9BSST^2's, 14' Stewart Screen, Berkely Alpha DAC RS
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#262045 - 2017-03-24 04:01 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: GaryArthur]
Registered: 2010-02-09
Posts: 154
JohnSWimer Offline
Hitchhiker
JohnSWimer Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-02-09
Posts: 154
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Gary,

Thanks for chiming in. I certainly appreciate it.

John


1: 808.5 Anniversary, 504, Oppo BDP-103, Apple TV, HD621, 861v8, 7200SEU l/r/c, 33 sides, 5200 rear, Sim2 Lumis & Schneider lens, Stewart Filmsreen, SR20 fuses where they count
2: Theta Compli Blu, Apple TV, HDMax421, G68ADV, G55, B&W Sig 8NT l/r/c, 8180 rear & Runco Plasma
3: G91A, 3100, Sony PS-FL5 turntable
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#262067 - 2017-03-24 13:08 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: GaryArthur]
Registered: 2003-07-10
Posts: 80
Demoleon Offline
Mostly harmless
Demoleon Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2003-07-10
Posts: 80
Loc: Omaha, NE, USA
Gary,

Your post intrigues me. I have been thinking about leaving Meridian (861v8 and HD621, analog speakers) and my dealer has mentioned Trinnov and Anthem. Haven't done too much research on either yet. Yet I really love Meridian for 2-channel music via Trifield and would hate to lose that. I have been sitting tight hoping that Meridian will drop a bombshell update to the HD621 and 861 but I am losing hope. If I were to purchase a Meridian Ultra DAC and run it through the Trinnov how much "Meridianness" would I lose? What about Trifield, does the Trinnov have an equivalent? I don't think I could go back to listening without Trifield (due to the presence of a screen wall my speakers are a litte farther apart than optimal so the center gets a little weak when listening without Trifield.) Been with Meridian for decades and it's kind of scary leaving for something else!

Thanks,
John


861v8, HD621, 7.1 analog speakers.
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#262068 - 2017-03-24 13:28 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: Demoleon]
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,457
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Cliff. Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 2,457
Loc: South Wiltshire, UK
I asked a similar question of a dealer and it appears you can create custom speaker layouts (several per source if required) so you could have the front 3 speakers or more. When creating an effect from a 2ch source you would need to used Dolby Surround, Neural:X or Auro-Matic sound mixers. In addition, Trinnov are bringing out their own algorithms shortly but these are under wraps for now.

Latest Altitude manual


Main system - Sources (Kodi-HTPC, Vero 4k, FireTV, Sat) into Trinnov Altitude 32 (8-16) (+Roon), Trinnov Amplitude 8 amp & Vivid Audio (Giya G3, V1.5) and REL Stentor III speakers. Others: F80 + Raspberry Pi and other Pi systems.
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#262074 - 2017-03-24 15:05 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: Cliff.]
Registered: 2003-07-10
Posts: 80
Demoleon Offline
Mostly harmless
Demoleon Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2003-07-10
Posts: 80
Loc: Omaha, NE, USA
Thanks. I suppose now is as good a time as any to start researching replacements. Do you know if Trifield is proprietary to Meridian or could Trinnov pony up the dough and license it for themselves?

John


861v8, HD621, 7.1 analog speakers.
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#262076 - 2017-03-24 15:18 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: GaryArthur]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,647
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,647
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By GaryArthur
I apologize for going on about Trinnov on a Meridian site because I was an M supporter for many years and I still have a fondness for their products. For my desires I feel like M abandoned me. I didn't want to leave them.
Not at all Gary, thank you for your valued input on this subject.

Glad you find time drop in now and again.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#262087 - 2017-03-24 17:06 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: Demoleon]
Registered: 2010-08-13
Posts: 275
GaryArthur Offline
Hitchhiker
GaryArthur Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-08-13
Posts: 275
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Originally Posted By Demoleon
Gary,

Yet I really love Meridian for 2-channel music via Trifield and would hate to lose that. I have been sitting tight hoping that Meridian will drop a bombshell update to the HD621 and 861 but I am losing hope. If I were to purchase a Meridian Ultra DAC and run it through the Trinnov how much "Meridianness" would I lose? What about Trifield, does the Trinnov have an equivalent? I don't think I could go back to listening without Trifield (due to the presence of a screen wall my speakers are a litte farther apart than optimal so the center gets a little weak when listening without Trifield.) Been with Meridian for decades and it's kind of scary leaving for something else!

Thanks,
John
I too was a big fan of Trifield. I remember a few years back the question of whether the width adjustability of Trifield was broken arose and a survey was taken. The experimentations and discussions that ensued gave me a better understanding of Trifield and I settled primarily on 1.1 for my width setting. As I said in my original post if it had been just about the music I would not have taken this journey and for me that would have been a mistake.

I didn't say too much about two channel so here are some thoughts. The RC on the trinnov is the best I've seen/heard. With proper calibration and curve fitting you can make a good speaker (but not signature level) truly approach the uncalibrated signature level speaker. And you can take the signature speaker to Audio Nirvana. OK, enough arm waving.

Cliff is correct about adding some speakers and customizing to simulate Trifield and trinnov allows up to 30 presets so you could easily adjust for different widths by saving them as presets. So far I use my presets to keep certain seating positions optimized. Cliff also mentioned up-mixing in his post. In general I am not too fond of most up-mixing. For example Cliff mentioned "Dolby Surround" which makes all of your Dolby Atmos speakers available. This may work for some and the up-mix is sophisticated but it's just too much and often it makes the music sound unnatural for me. But then there is Auromatic. With this up-mixer you get height and breadth added to your two channel and even mono recordings. Music that I considered "thin" got body but still remained true to their two channel roots. I have come to like Auromatic even better than Trifield. Of course YMMV.

Trinnov has upgraded their software a number of times I know them all since I have serial #183. Later this year they will make 48 channels (for a fee) available with a software upgrade. This will require you to use a combination of 32 analog channels and 16 digital or buy a converter to run 48 analog speakers.

Two other quick points. This switch was not cheap. The unit itself with 32 channels and all three codecs Atmos, Auro snd DTS-X was $32,000 of course you my not need/want that many channels you can buy only 8, 16 or 24 channels and then purchase more channel later if you need them and they have a more competitively priced 16 channel model coming out later this year. Also when I sold my 861/HD621 one year ago it went for $9000. I'm sure at that price the unit might not move today based on another thread I just read.

Again I am not trying to offend any Meridian users and you can see there was literally a price to pay. I'm trying to help John understand my journey. Meridian was/is outstanding kit.

Gary




My Kit: Trinnov Altitude 32,Oppo BDP 203, Sony 600es, Martin Logan Neoliths Mains with VTL Siegfried II's, ML CLX's, ML Renaissance, 5 ML Theaters,13 ML Vanquish, 6 ML Edges, 6 ML Axis' 8 Velodyne DD-18+'s, Pass Labs 600.8,Pass Labs 160.8, Pass labs 160.5, Bryston 14B-SST, 6B-SST,6 Bryston 9BSST^2's, 14' Stewart Screen, Berkely Alpha DAC RS
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#262093 - 2017-03-24 18:58 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: GaryArthur]
Registered: 2000-05-29
Posts: 2,379
JerryL Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
JerryL Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2000-05-29
Posts: 2,379
Loc: NYC Metro Area, USA
Thank you Gary and everyone for the outstanding discussion. I think it is pertinent to the current situation and I hope Meridian is reading this.


Best regards,
Jerry
Main System: 861v6, DSP8000s in corners, DSP7000s Center and Sides, 1-9 humans.
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#262184 - 2017-03-27 18:20 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: AudioImages - Rick]
Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,596
RobertW Offline
Robert.W Great Green Arkleseizure
RobertW Offline
Robert.W
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2000-11-01
Posts: 2,596
Loc: Austria, Europe
Originally Posted By AudioImages - Rick
Hi Robert,

At the start we're only looking to use Trinnov for the new object based immersive sound formats such as Atmos.
We'll see how we get on with the Altitude 32 in this roll before investigating any other applications.
Hi Rick,

I asked Trinnov HQ what Trinnov can do with 2-channels sources and more then two speakers. Except with the Altitude they can't do anything with those sources.

So be carefull here with smaller processors from Trinnov as the Altitude. They CAN NOT produce presets like M do examples Trifield music.
So the "small" ones only make sense when you keep your M processor to have presets like Trifield, music and more.
ONLY the Altitude can do that but only with comprimíses as Trinnov say:

Originally Posted By Trinnov
Hello Robert,

I will clarify the situation on Trinnov general products, and I will talk about the Altitude later as it is a little bit different.
Trinnov doesn't have that kind of technology. It means that if you play stereo content, it will only play on Left and Right speakers. We don't "create" some content to feed the center channel. We just simply reproduce the content with the higher fidelity possible.

The Altitude is a different products because it is a home-theater dedicated products, and so includes decoders : Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Auro-3D. These 3D decoders, if included in the Altitude (Optional feature) has their own "upmixer". Each upmixer has their own algorithm and also their own limit. They are able to take a stereo content and upmix it on a 5.1, 7.1 or a 3D speaker layout (with ceiling speakers). There technologies won't work on a 3 speakers (LCR) configuration.
These upmixers are more dedicated to a home-cinema use but also works on stereo content.
These technologies are not Trinnov technologies, so we don't really know what happen and what the recreated channels is containing. To use these up-mixers, the 3D Codecs option is mandatory.

I hope this helps to clarify the situation.

Best Regards,
Yann


861v6+ID40/800v3/3x8k.2/3x5k5s smile /2x5kC/ 218/Explorer/TT-ELP/Trinnov Amethyst
__HB-strip, Ayon/HB/Shunyata/Dream State Audio/Miltzow -- power cables,
__Ayon/Jungson/Miltzow --analog, Miltzow-- digital,
__WMA/Finalizer- , iPad air, Macbook-pro.
Reviver
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#271794 - 2018-01-13 14:22 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: AudioImages - Rick]
Registered: 2010-02-12
Posts: 1,739
AudioImages - Rick Offline
Meridian Partner Knows where his towel is
AudioImages - Rick Offline
Meridian Partner
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2010-02-12
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Sheffield, England
Just to follow up on this thread I started some months ago.

Audio Images now are official Trinnov dealers and have in stock and available for demonstration a Trinnov Altitude32 8-16.

While we await the release of the Meridian 271 we are still able to demonstrate the Trinnov with Meridian DSP loudspeakers as we have developed our own solution to connect the digital output of the Trinnov to the SpeakerLink inputs of the Meridian DSP.

If anyone would like to come for a listen then please PM or email me to arrange an audition and we can set up an appropriate system.

Rick



Audio Images, 284 Glossop Road, Sheffield, England. Tel: 0114 273 7893
Website: www.audio-images.co.uk Email: Click here to email Rick
Twitter: Audio Images
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#271795 - 2018-01-13 14:37 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: AudioImages - Rick]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,562
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,562
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
That's impressive work Rick; I hope it brings you in some business.


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#271796 - 2018-01-13 14:51 Re: Trinnov and Meridian at Audio Images [Re: AudioImages - Rick]
Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 160
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker
_M_ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2017-05-27
Posts: 160
Loc: Manhattan, NYC, USA
so in essence, given your resourceful solution, the 271 is not mandatory?

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