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#247672 - 2016-03-03 22:24 Re: HD621 Does it support 4K? ** [Re: Jimbo]
Registered: 2014-01-07
Posts: 116
Craig Offline
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Craig Offline
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Registered: 2014-01-07
Posts: 116
Loc: Hope Island, Australia
Originally Posted By Jimbo
Surely you mean movies upscaled to 4K on your 4K native projector?

Native 4K Bluray movies have only just been released, and not worldwide yet.
Or do you mean 4K compressed low bit rate content streamed over the net? laugh

No I have a Sony 4K server and have had it for about 18 months. Sony has 4K movies that you buy and download (about £15ea).
Trouble is the selection isn't great as it's only Sony stuff etc but still up until now it was the only way we could watch a 4K movie on our 4K PJ's and TV's.

I don't ever stream anything from the net as the quality just isn't good enough for me.


Theatre Room: Sony 4K VW500ES, 861v8+ID41, HD621, DSP6000's, DSP5000C, DSP5000's, Oppo 205, Sat STB, XBox One S, Middle Atlantic Rack. Stewart Cinemascope Screen, QNAP TVS 1271U-RP (96TB) with Sooloos/Roon core pkg.

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#247674 - 2016-03-03 22:42 Re: HD621 Does it support 4K? [Re: EllisDJ]
Registered: 2010-03-17
Posts: 158
Jimbo Offline
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Jimbo Offline
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Registered: 2010-03-17
Posts: 158
Loc: E.Yorkshire, U.K
Originally Posted By EllisDJ
Originally Posted By Jimbo
Originally Posted By EllisDJ
A crisper clearer image from a PJ is never a bad thing and for those with 4k PJ's and no HDR compatibility then it's not the end of the world to go in early.

The Panny UHD Bluray Player supposedly has
High Quality Sound

●TWIN HDMI PURE AV (Twin Isolated Output)
●7.1ch Analog Audio Output
●High-quality Audio Parts (Power Supply, Audio Circuit, Digital Circuit)
●High Clarity Sound Premium
●HDMI Low Clock Jitter Process
●Digital Tube Sound with Up-sampling
●High-resolution Audio Playback (DSD (2.8MHz/5.6MHz), ALAC, FLAC, WAV)
●192kHz/32bit DAC x 5
●192kHz/96kHz Surround Re-master

Does that mean a Torrodial based Power Supply - one can hope so
Regarding the sound, i would rather take advantage of the superior digital audio processing of the Meridian 861 by routing the standard DTS HD MA/Dolby True HD (converted by the player to PCM) output from the 4K Bluray player into the HD621/861.
It will be better quality overall than the analogue output from the Panny UHD.

Also DSD is a gimmick. Studios record in 24/192 PCM. You cant mix in DSD. 16/44 or 16/96 gives all the resolution and dynamic range we can hear or feel.

Redbook CD quality 16/44 still has not been perfected. It is the quality of the master recording which matters, and not the bit rate or sampling rate.
Meridian MQA will hopefully wipe out the craving for ridiculous high data rate resolutions such as 24/192 or 24/384 etc. The DSD data rates are crazy.
Sorry this is missing what I meant - that is all I would use the player for - however I wished I had bought an Audiocom upgraded Oppo over my Marantz.
I feel the benefits of good power supply, good clocks and rfi attention is just as important for digital as analgoue.
So if the Panny does have a torodial - proper power supply for sound quality it might be a keeper for those without HDR based PJ's

Other than that I would want all to go via the M kit for 100% sure smile lets hope the HD621 replacement has a torodial supply also smile


I own the Audiocom modified Oppo 105D Signature.
It is visibly and audibly better than the stock version, even though i am just using the digital audio/video upgrades via the HD621/861, and my TV/Projector for movies.
The analogue XLR 2 channel sound quality of the 105D Signature, outperforms the XLR output on my old 861v4. So i connect my headphone amp to that.


861v4 LPSU, HD621, Sony HW40, PMC AML2, PMC IB2SA Centre - Triamped via Wyred4Sound MMC, PMC Wafer2 surr, PMC SB100 Sub & Wyred4Sound SX-1000, Dune HD MAX. Oppo BDP-105D Signature. Mede8ER 600X3D
Marantz CD94/CDA94. Rotel RB-1562, LG 65" OLED. IPL Acoustics STL5. Virgin Tivo. HifiMan HE-1000/Audio-GD M9. Stax SR-007/KGSSHV Carbon‏.
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#247727 - 2016-03-04 13:01 Re: HD621 Does it support 4K? [Re: Jimbo]
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 333
EllisDJ Offline
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EllisDJ Offline
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Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 333
Loc: Romford, UK
That's not surprising and good to know - have you fed the 861 from the Audiocom Oppo via SPDIF into the 861?

Sorry this slightly off topic


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#247729 - 2016-03-04 20:03 Re: HD621 Does it support 4K? [Re: EllisDJ]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,847
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,847
Loc: Bournville, UK
FWIW, today, I had the opportunity to have a lengthy conversation with a John Lewis staffer and visiting Sony rep (who previously had worked for LG).

The JL staffer confirmed online reviews on the fragility of Samsung 4K panels, in that they were prone to cracking: not only on unpacking, but even once on the shop floor. Samsung ranked as their highest turnover for returned/faulty panels.

Both guys openly admitted to the fragility of both Korean brands compared to their Japanese rivals: this is because Sony and Panasonic include metal framing in their panels rather than relying wholely on plastic. The advice from both guys was to buy either Panasonic or Sony for their manufacturing quality and longevity.

Unfortunately, the latest Panasonic DX902 wasn't on display - although the magnificent Panasonic OLED was.


My Mac can go all the way to XI

Meridian owner since 1994 - Mac user since 1988.
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#247738 - 2016-03-05 09:10 Re: HD621 Does it support 4K? [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2006-06-23
Posts: 1,672
Mark_H Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Mark_H Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2006-06-23
Posts: 1,672
Loc: South West, UK
Originally Posted By spinaltap
I had the opportunity to have a lengthy conversation with a ... visiting Sony rep...

The advice ... was to buy... Sony
laugh

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#247739 - 2016-03-05 09:23 Re: HD621 Does it support 4K? [Re: Mark_H]
Registered: 2004-05-18
Posts: 595
Rodders Online content
Paranoid android
Rodders Online content
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-05-18
Posts: 595
Loc: Nr. Chester, UK
Or buy an LG OLED...mine has a metal frame smile

Rod


818v3, MC200, QNAP TS269L, 7200SE, ARCAM AVR380, REL B2, Panasonic BD 80, LG OLED, SBox Transporter, iPad, F80.
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#247740 - 2016-03-05 11:16 Re: HD621 Does it support 4K? [Re: Mark_H]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,847
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,847
Loc: Bournville, UK
Originally Posted By Mark_H
Originally Posted By spinaltap
I had the opportunity to have a lengthy conversation with a ... visiting Sony rep...

The advice ... was to buy... Sony
laugh
His advice was to buy Panasonic or Sony smirk

The same advice was given by John Lewis.


My Mac can go all the way to XI

Meridian owner since 1994 - Mac user since 1988.
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#247799 - 2016-03-07 20:42 Re: HD621 Does it support 4K? [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2010-03-17
Posts: 158
Jimbo Offline
Hitchhiker
Jimbo Offline
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Registered: 2010-03-17
Posts: 158
Loc: E.Yorkshire, U.K
The irony is only LG currently manufacture large screen OLED panels.
These are what Panasonic, and now Phillips, buy directly from LG, and then stick their own badge on them, and inflate the price smile

They just change the framework for their own design, and in Panasonic's case they use an improved video processing board to get even better picture quality from the same panel.

I upgraded from a 55" LG 1080P OLED to the newer generation 65" 4K OLED. Both are fantastic build quality. the 55" had carbon fibre back panel casework, which is stronger and lighter than any thin metal and plastic frame.

So seen as though most modern Bluray players such as Oppo, have dual HDMI output, simply use one for extracting audio via the HD621/861. The other goes directly to the display. So no need for HD621 to support 4K. Of more use is whether the HD621 can support HDMI2 and the new Atmos/DTS X sound formats, and convert them to PCM. Sadly it cannot.


861v4 LPSU, HD621, Sony HW40, PMC AML2, PMC IB2SA Centre - Triamped via Wyred4Sound MMC, PMC Wafer2 surr, PMC SB100 Sub & Wyred4Sound SX-1000, Dune HD MAX. Oppo BDP-105D Signature. Mede8ER 600X3D
Marantz CD94/CDA94. Rotel RB-1562, LG 65" OLED. IPL Acoustics STL5. Virgin Tivo. HifiMan HE-1000/Audio-GD M9. Stax SR-007/KGSSHV Carbon‏.
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#247802 - 2016-03-07 22:00 Re: HD621 Does it support 4K? [Re: EllisDJ]
Registered: 2010-03-17
Posts: 158
Jimbo Offline
Hitchhiker
Jimbo Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-03-17
Posts: 158
Loc: E.Yorkshire, U.K
Originally Posted By EllisDJ
That's not surprising and good to know - have you fed the 861 from the Audiocom Oppo via SPDIF into the 861?

Sorry this slightly off topic
Yes I have tried this for listening to 2 channel music. It sounds the same as routing via the HD621 which does the Apodising and FIFO buffering, instead of the 861 doing the apodising directly. The shorter path, lower jitter and ground isolation of direct optical connection to 861, instead of HDMI via HD621 to 861, did not make a difference to my ears.

The DAC and output stage in the analogue XLR output card of the 861v4 are beaten by the upgraded Oppo. It may be the other way round with a newer 861v6 or 8 analogue XLR output card?
But with the ultra low jitter and noise, in the Audiocom Oppo and all the other improvements, plus a better DAC chip, including separate PSU; it is probably unfair competition for the old v4 XLR analogue card.

However i may be upgrading to an even more superior external DAC to feed my Stax head amp, and Earspeakers. So this will also beat the DAC/analogue output stage built in the upgraded Oppo. Will be either an MSB or a lampizator external DAC.
Both these use discrete low noise super accurate ladder resistors to do the PCM D/A conversion, and do not use a DAC chip or op amps. It is all discrete components. Same ones as used in satellites, instrumentation, and military systems where accuracy is essential.

The reality is most DAC's are not ultra accurate. Modern Sigma Delta DACs use high speed mathematical guesswork, and need an accurate clock to keep jitter low.
Older more expensive to manufacture DAC chips from the 1980's/early 90's based on a Ladder resistor network were also not highly accurate, though they were very fast as no processing was involved, and they were not so dependent on clock accuracy (low jitter) to get a good sound.

What will be interesting is taking the apodised/FIFO buffered digital coax output from the tape/bypass out of the 861 and into the external DAC.


861v4 LPSU, HD621, Sony HW40, PMC AML2, PMC IB2SA Centre - Triamped via Wyred4Sound MMC, PMC Wafer2 surr, PMC SB100 Sub & Wyred4Sound SX-1000, Dune HD MAX. Oppo BDP-105D Signature. Mede8ER 600X3D
Marantz CD94/CDA94. Rotel RB-1562, LG 65" OLED. IPL Acoustics STL5. Virgin Tivo. HifiMan HE-1000/Audio-GD M9. Stax SR-007/KGSSHV Carbon‏.
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