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#245990 - 2016-01-28 18:20 MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor.
Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 587
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 587
Loc: Cologne, DE & Cheltenham, UK.
So, with the announcement that the first roll-out of MQA firmware for some Meridian kit is going to hit us on the 04th February (yay!) and the comment or confirmation that the 861v8 surround processor won't be part of this initial group, my question is - meant in a positive spirit - how can I join the party ?!

I have an Explorer_2 so I'm guessing I'll have to stream from a PC / laptop through the Explorer_2 to it's analogue out, connect that via a 3.5mm to RCA stereo cable to an analogue input on my 861v8, adjust & update / upload my config file for this (new) input, and listen to the output which will be re-digitised to 96/24 & then go back through the DAC, finally through MHR to my DSP-SE speakers.

Signal chain : MQA (digital) file on a laptop / PC -> Explorer_2 (through DAC to Analogue out) -> 861v8 analogue input card (ADC converts to 96/24) -> DSProcessing etc -> DSP speakers (over MHR, and converted in DAC to ??KHz/??bit).

Correct ?


Meridian : 861v8 + ID41 + HD621 + 218, 2*SE-update DSP8.2K's, SE-update DSP7200HC. Roon.
TAG McLaren : DVD32R-PSM192, T32R+DAB, 100x5R:10. B&W : 4*SCMS. Logitech : Squeezebox Touches & Duets.
Sim2 HT380 DLP, Panasonic TX-P60ZT60E, SKY HD+, SlingBox HD Pro, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Oppo BDP-103EU.
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#245992 - 2016-01-28 18:26 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Rolski]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 3,938
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 3,938
Loc: London, England
Pretty much, yes.

M need to come up with a replacement for the MS200 that outputs MQA decoded files via SpeakerLink/MHR coax for legacy equipment owners. It's surely too big a cohort of owners to ignore?


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#245994 - 2016-01-28 18:37 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Rolski]
Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,587
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,587
Loc: North London, United Kingdom
Laptop playing MQA file out through USB => USB to SPDIF converter => SPDIF into the D2 input on the DSP8000SEs.

This assumes (probably incorrectly) that DSP8000SEs have full MQA decoding and rendering capability on board. And yes, should it work, it would be stereo only and require configuring the DSPs for the new input.


Various DSP speakers and Meridian processors
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#245996 - 2016-01-28 18:48 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 587
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 587
Loc: Cologne, DE & Cheltenham, UK.
@Gianni
Thanks - that's a really good idea - and acceptable for demo / temporary purposes until the 861v8 hardware "catches-up". That is, of course, as you say, dependent on the DSP8000SE capabilities....
Now, time to find a reasonable USB-to-SPDIF converter !


Meridian : 861v8 + ID41 + HD621 + 218, 2*SE-update DSP8.2K's, SE-update DSP7200HC. Roon.
TAG McLaren : DVD32R-PSM192, T32R+DAB, 100x5R:10. B&W : 4*SCMS. Logitech : Squeezebox Touches & Duets.
Sim2 HT380 DLP, Panasonic TX-P60ZT60E, SKY HD+, SlingBox HD Pro, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Oppo BDP-103EU.
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#245999 - 2016-01-28 19:25 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Rolski]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By Rolski
Now, time to find a reasonable USB-to-SPDIF converter !
Explorer 1? wink


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#246009 - 2016-01-28 21:30 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Rolski]
Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 673
Mtns Offline
Paranoid android
Mtns Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-02-03
Posts: 673
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Consider the asynchronous Halide Design Bridge. I have one I used Before I got Sooloos. Very highly rated and small form factor. Make me a reasonable offer if you can't find one used on your side of the pond.


James
NC1: 861v4+ID40, 218, MS200 (to outdoors), DSP8000SE (upgraded). 5500VC, 5500s, Hsu Research ULS15x2, DirecTV, Oppo BD103, QNAP251, Roon
NC2-see FL 2 with Triad Silver Speakers

FL1: G61R, 218, DSP8000SEs, 5500HC, DSP6000s, MS600, DirecTv, Oppo BD103, QNAP469, Roon
FL2: Marantz 7005, M60s, M60C, M33s, Oppo BDP-93, MS200, Roon
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#246010 - 2016-01-28 21:42 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Rolski]
Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,324
Ludwig Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ludwig Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 5,324
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By Rolski
@Gianni
Thanks - that's a really good idea - and acceptable for demo / temporary purposes until the 861v8 hardware "catches-up". That is, of course, as you say, dependent on the DSP8000SE capabilities...
Now, time to find a reasonable USB-to-SPDIF converter !
It was explained quite a lot in the early announcements, that you need an 818 or other qualified item to decode/confirm the data. So I don't think USB/SPDIF converter into SE speaker has a hope in hell of working.

Sorry!


Ex-moderator
Sitting room: 818v3, 8kSE
Office: 818v3, Stax SRM-T1, Stax SR404LE
TV room: HD621, 518, D33
Kitchen: MS200, Genelec 6010 actives
Server: Roon/NUC/Touchscreen

Oldest audio file: 1889 Edison cylinder
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#246012 - 2016-01-28 22:18 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Ludwig]
Registered: 2010-01-24
Posts: 698
Altus Offline
Paranoid android
Altus Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-01-24
Posts: 698
Loc: Midlands, UK
Agreed. The DSPs are not going to do the decoding and will need an MHR stream to work with MQA.


Cinema: 861v4, DSP5500(F), DSP5500HC(C), DSP5500(R), MF-10 Projector
Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP859 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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#246016 - 2016-01-29 00:33 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Ludwig]
Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,587
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,587
Loc: North London, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By Ludwig
It was explained quite a lot in the early announcements, that you need an 818 or other qualified item to decode/confirm the data. So I don't think USB/SPDIF converter into SE speaker has a hope in hell of working.

Sorry!
I was assuming that Tidal/Roon would provide the decode/confirm.

Originally Posted By Altus
Agreed. The DSPs are not going to do the decoding and will need an MHR stream to work with MQA.
But surely the DSPs (since they contain a DAC) must do the rendering? And surely we are not suggesting that they could only handle MQA material from an MHR-capable source, that would seem like quite a limitation, especially given the (current) very limited availability of such sources.


Various DSP speakers and Meridian processors
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#246020 - 2016-01-29 06:40 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2010-01-24
Posts: 698
Altus Offline
Paranoid android
Altus Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-01-24
Posts: 698
Loc: Midlands, UK
Gianni

My understanding is that

All Tidal/ Roon/ Sooloos will do is convey bit perfect data to the M endpoints - no decoding.

MQA will only play in its full fat form on DSPs if it has been decoded earlier in the chain and transmitted to the speakers via MHR

Full fat decoded MQA will not be available in unencrypted digital form.

The current MS200 and MS600 endpoints will not be firmware upgradeable to handle full fat MQA

So, to get the full benefits of MQA with DSPs one will need to buy a new MQA decoder that is capable of generating an MHR encrypted output.

(I have no inside knowledge but the above seems to fairly widely accepted)


Cinema: 861v4, DSP5500(F), DSP5500HC(C), DSP5500(R), MF-10 Projector
Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP859 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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#246028 - 2016-01-29 09:45 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Altus]
Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,587
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure
Gianni Offline
Great Green Arkleseizure

Registered: 2001-05-23
Posts: 2,587
Loc: North London, United Kingdom
Thanks Altus.

So the MQA endpoint is not the DSP speaker. Would the MQA endpoint need to know which speaker (5200SE, 7200SE, 8000SE) is playing the audio in order to correctly correct (!)the A2D errors?

And if full-fat decoded MQA is not to be available unencrypted then only MHR-capable (i.e. proprietary Meridian) products could be MQA end-points for DSPs?

These questions are not criticisms of MQA or anyone's understanding, just seeking to further the theoretical debate.

Clearly we need an entry-level, MQA-capable end-point. The 808/818 are flagships but a (say) replacement AC200 which could take an encoded MQA stream from an MS200/MS600 would surely appeal to DSP5200SE owners, or even any legacy DSP owner?

Mods, I think this is now starting to drift off topic and perhaps should be moved or given its own thread?


Various DSP speakers and Meridian processors
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#246029 - 2016-01-29 10:06 Re: MQA : How to experience MQA through my 861v8 processor. [Re: Gianni]
Registered: 2010-01-24
Posts: 698
Altus Offline
Paranoid android
Altus Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-01-24
Posts: 698
Loc: Midlands, UK
Originally Posted By Gianni
So the MQA endpoint is not the DSP speaker. Would the MQA endpoint need to know which speaker (5200SE, 7200SE, 8000SE) is playing the audio in order to correctly correct (!)the A2D errors?
I believe so, and presumably this would be achieved through MHR and/or SL (and legacy?) comms.

Originally Posted By Gianni
if full-fat decoded MQA is not to be available unencrypted then only MHR-capable (i.e. proprietary Meridian) products could be MQA end-points for DSPs?
Yes, this is the logical conclusion - it is highly unlikely that M would allow other manufacturers to use the MHR system

Originally Posted By Gianni
we need an entry-level, MQA-capable end-point. The 808/818 are flagships but a (say) replacement AC200 which could take an encoded MQA stream from an MS200/MS600 would surely appeal to DSP5200SE owners, or even any legacy DSP owner?
Agreed, but the AC200 should not need to be replaced - it will simply stream bit perfectly to the MQA/MHR compatible endpoint (such as the replacement for the MS200).

One other possibility, and this is pure speculation, is that the current MS200 and MS600 could be firmware upgraded to give decoded MQA on the analogue outputs only - this would at least allow some full fat MQA functionality on these machines with, for example, headphones or analogue systems (and would be a good PR move too). I understand that going the whole hog and making these machines both MQA and MHR compatible via firmware upgrade is not possible because of chip limitations (unconfirmed but believed to be true).


Cinema: 861v4, DSP5500(F), DSP5500HC(C), DSP5500(R), MF-10 Projector
Streaming: Roon, NUC, QNAP859 NAS
2ch system: Ultra DAC, analogue amps and speakers
Retro system: 101/104/105, analogue speakers
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