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#241574 - 2015-10-16 14:36 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,230
VirusKiller Online content
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Online content
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,230
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Originally Posted By Ratbert
Hi Joel

Care to expand on why?



In short Russ, life *is* too short and, in my experience, this stuff "just doesn't work" all of the time and without maintenance; and I don't believe it ever will.

As far as heating is concerned, we've just set our single (upstairs) thermostat to 19ºC. The living room is warm in summer (t-shirts) and quite cool in winter (sweaters and open fire).

With regards to IoT, security is a massive issue and manufacturers are ALWAYS behind the curve (my choice of a Google Nexus phone vs. a Samsung offering was greatly influenced by the fact that the Nexus would get more timely security updates). Did you know that car manufacturers cannot see the dangers of linking the entertainment computer to the automotive (engine, brakes, suspension, lights, etc.) computer?

About to go outside into the cold and carve a nice bit of willow with an axe...


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#241576 - 2015-10-16 14:40 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,166
Ratbert Offline
Hooloovoo
Ratbert Offline
Hooloovoo

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,166
Loc: Europe
I agree, I was just curious to hear your point of view.

Thanks

Russ


.
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#241581 - 2015-10-16 15:15 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 677
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android
Chris G Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-01-20
Posts: 677
Loc: Newbury, UK
If my evohome system goes Pete Tong, I'll simply move a few wires and the old analog thermostat can be reinstated. A backup plan is always a good idea for critical services. An electric immersion heater and portable electric room heaters in case the boiler packs up, puncture repair kits for the bike... I even had a UPS once that I pressed into service to run a power shower pump during a prolonged power cut. That was quite surreal.

I still keep my CD and DVD collection Just In Case (TM)


Chris
Living Rm: 568.2 | 2xDSP3100
  AV Room: G61R | 4xD5K | D5KC | USC15 - iNuke6K | 2xEarthquake MQB-1 | JVC HD350 & React3 2.35:1
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#241590 - 2015-10-16 19:04 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: Chris G]
Registered: 2001-01-04
Posts: 247
MagnusB Offline
Hitchhiker
MagnusB Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2001-01-04
Posts: 247
Loc: California, USA
I think the ecobee is a better choice. Better functionality, better support, great apps, web interface aas well, works with IFTT, Smartthings and Homekit.


MC200, G61R, Non-SL DSP5200 and DSP5200C, DSP5000 rears
Explorer 2 for the PC (Audioengine 2+) and Headphones (HE-560)

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#241599 - 2015-10-17 07:52 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: MagnusB]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,352
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,352
Loc: Surrey, UK
Ecobee looks interesting but is not available outside US by the look of it.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
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#241601 - 2015-10-17 08:41 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: ncpl]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,348
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,348
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
I cant see how Ecobee would work in a typical UK house.

It seems to work by zoning temperature measurement but not allowing individual control of the zones, ie each radiator/ufh zone. So if it detects a room is occupied and below temperature, it will supply heat to the whole house, unless a radiator is turned off/trv closed, is not going to save anything. The only time i see it working, is if you are in a zone deemed cooler than rest of house, then the whole house will only need to run at the cooler temperature. The moment it detects you in a warmer part of the house, its going to have to heat the whole house again which is where the cost is.

What the Honeywell systems do is turn the whole thing round, and an individual radiator (or remote room thermostat) tells the boiler that it needs to warm up and by how much. The radiator is either demanding head, closed or borrowing heat, the latter being that thermostat heuristic determines that a radiator is below temperature but not enough for it to demand the boiler needs to heat it up, so it can borrow heat instead of requiring the boiler to fire up. By centrally controlling these requests, the boiler demands can be optimised plus each room/zone can be set at different temperatures at different times of the day. What it wont do is automatic occupancy detection, but as mentioned earlier, if your home is well insulated, once the room is up to temperature, the only cost is that of heating to overcome room losses. One drawback with Honeywell is that because all zones can be closed off (and boiler will still pump water for period after), the central heating system must be designed to cope with this (usually a bypass valve or a radiator always on) plus the efficientcy of only having to heat one radiator can mean that boiler return temperatures are affected, the case with TRVs in general but highlighted by boiler demand control being zone based rather than whole house cased.

I think to sum it up, if your house is well insulated, zone based control like Honeywell systems work well (possibly with addition of occupancy control if you have irregular patterns when yiu are not at home and yiu cannot predict this from home in advance), if not well insulated, then spend your money insulating and if yiu cannot insulate well, then something like Hive may be a good solution if you have irregular patterns when you dont need heat.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#241640 - 2015-10-18 15:06 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2001-01-04
Posts: 247
MagnusB Offline
Hitchhiker
MagnusB Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2001-01-04
Posts: 247
Loc: California, USA
Ian you are correct about the zones. The ecobee is a one-zone controller since most homes here have one central AC unit.


MC200, G61R, Non-SL DSP5200 and DSP5200C, DSP5000 rears
Explorer 2 for the PC (Audioengine 2+) and Headphones (HE-560)

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#241658 - 2015-10-18 19:38 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: Chris G]
Registered: 2014-02-10
Posts: 157
Sir Ron Ekim Offline
Hitchhiker
Sir Ron Ekim Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2014-02-10
Posts: 157
Loc: Surrey, UK
Chris,

Out of interest, which TRVs are your Evohome rad controllers sitting on and do they make much noise when operating?

I was thinking about this system myself, for all the same reasons you probably chose it.
But I'm wary of them waking us up when coming on in the morning.

I've got some LightwaveRF kit for lighting and power and it is just about OK for the money.
But I hear mixed opinions about their heating, and the Evohome looks a similar, but better option.


LOUNGE - Roon Server on Windows 10, i7 HTPC, iPad Air 2 remote, MS200 218 feeding white DSP7200.2
GARDEN - DSP5000
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#241659 - 2015-10-18 20:07 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: Sir Ron Ekim]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,348
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,348
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
The Hometronic HR80 units are slightly audible, but soothing - often they just make a slight adjustment. But it will be dependent on how quiet the base TRVs are, if they squeak, then its possibly going to get annoying.

My wife is lightest of sleepers and they don't bother her. They don't adjust very often - biggest adjustments are when they go through a programmed change in temperature. You may get a full adjustment once at night and once in morning. Neither of us are disturbed by these even when we are lightly snoozing. We have ours set on optimum lift mode (small changes rather than full open/close) and batteries do last over 2 years.

The bigest noise is the monthly full adjust, where they do a full open/close cycle to stop the base TRV valve sticking as often happens over time when TRV valves are not adjusted. This may take 30 seconds or so.

No reason why the newer Evohome are any different as they are closely based on the Hometronic mechanism. My base TRV valves were Honeywell, so no adaptor plate needed.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#241663 - 2015-10-18 20:23 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 3,963
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 3,963
Loc: London, England
My existing TRVs are Honeywell, so that's good to know.


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#241672 - 2015-10-18 21:50 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2014-02-10
Posts: 157
Sir Ron Ekim Offline
Hitchhiker
Sir Ron Ekim Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2014-02-10
Posts: 157
Loc: Surrey, UK
Unfortunately, I have a mix of TRVs that came with the house, but none are Honeywell (Drayton, Danfoss, and some unknown)
So could add a fair bit of cost (and more importantly, time) if I were to replace them, as there are about 14 rads.

Guess I could just try the controllers first and see how it goes...


LOUNGE - Roon Server on Windows 10, i7 HTPC, iPad Air 2 remote, MS200 218 feeding white DSP7200.2
GARDEN - DSP5000
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#241681 - 2015-10-19 06:40 Re: Nest vs Hive [Re: Sir Ron Ekim]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,348
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,348
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
My HR80's came with adaptors for other makes. Worth looking online for what adaptors come with/are available for other base TRV's. Iirc it is the HR92.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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