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#259347 - 2017-02-11 17:52 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,291
Ratbert Offline
Hooloovoo
Ratbert Offline
Hooloovoo

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,291
Loc: Europe
Surely JL will replace it'?

Russ


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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#259350 - 2017-02-11 17:56 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,973
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,973
Loc: Bournville, UK
No. As there wasn't a similar model available at the same price-point I was refunded the price paid. Their opinion was that I had a free Coffee machine for 12+ months.


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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#259362 - 2017-02-11 20:13 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,296
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,296
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
I looked at all these consumer machines and decided that I didn't want to pay up to a grand (or more) for something that wasn't going to last me 20 years (and have parts available for 20 years).

So I paid a premium for an ex-dem Quick Mill Verona prosumer espresso machine from Bella Barista, not a million miles away from me in Wellingborough. It's the antithesis of the one-button espresso machine (though it does have dual temperature controller and shot timer).

It looks the part, is fully serviceable (and will be for years), and rewards effort put into understanding the espresso-making process.



Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#259365 - 2017-02-11 21:00 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,973
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,973
Loc: Bournville, UK
That looks like a fun piece of kit! However, £3k is OTT for me.

My thoughts are that I want something my wife can use too: it would be nice if someone else in my household made the Coffee.

I'm therefore gravitating towards Miele. They're manufactured by Jura, but designed by Miele with Miele electronics. They assure me that they're tested to last 20 years.

I will be visiting the Miele Experience Centre in Abingdon next weekend for a demo.

Edit: interesting that Jura closed Bella Barista's account for daring to criticise the shortcomings of the Jura E8.


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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#259366 - 2017-02-11 21:08 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,291
Ratbert Offline
Hooloovoo
Ratbert Offline
Hooloovoo

Registered: 2010-12-09
Posts: 3,291
Loc: Europe
Have a look in the outlet store on site, you may yet get a bargain?

Russ


Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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#259367 - 2017-02-11 21:11 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: Ratbert]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,973
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,973
Loc: Bournville, UK
Miele 'B' grade stock doesn't qualify for additional warranty protection outside the standard 2 year warranty period, unfortunately.


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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#259374 - 2017-02-11 22:58 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2007-10-24
Posts: 161
Ado Offline
Hitchhiker
Ado Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2007-10-24
Posts: 161
Loc: London, UK
Interesting thread...given the standardisation of Nespresso or similar coffee pod systems, the heat and pump specification are the same across manufacturers and models - so in some ways buying anything other than the cheapest model is a bit of waste. Sure the more costly models may have add on features for convenience and style but the coffee with highly likely taste the same. The house we moved to has a built in Miele Espresso machine - has a hopper for 5 different capsules, various cup/volume choices and a dedicated steamer and steamer jug for frothing the milk. Tells you when to descale it - which takes forever to preform. Makes an awesome babycinco for my kids - which has been it main use. The steamer has broken and now rarely use it. Kids not happy - must be a repairer somewhere but have not been bothered to look. Not sure the coffee tastes any better than the cheapest Espresso machine at Argos. But each to their own.

Personally I know favour a filter/pour over coffee over espresso based coffees and have a Mazzer Mini grinder to freshly grind my favourite blend, which I helped specify while working on a new restaurant-cafe-bar concept. During one tasting session at the roasters we trialled 9 different beans/blends - first as an espresso shot and then as a flat white - to see whether the espresso made it through the milk. Milk has such a great impact on coffee taste - far more than the beans. We then retasted 4 beans/blends with a different roast profile (i.e. number of seconds in the roaster at max roast temp). Another 8 shots. All made as double shots with 20 grams of coffee. I could have flown back to London with all that caffeine.

For making filter coffee with a press or aeropress I use 60gr/litre of coffee and brew for 3mins (sometimes 4 mins). If making espresso, I use 20grams for a double shot. What are people using? What milk are you using? Cravendale was a favourite by some - a bit sweet to my taste. What beans/blends?

If looking for an espresso machine, I do not think you could go past a La Marzocco G3 for home use. It does not grind the beans (a parallel to not processing audio and video in the one processor) but most importantly it has dual boilers for temperature stability. Mind you it is not cheap:

La Marzocco GS3

I saw this from Sage - looks like an interest spec as will also grind the beans - but have no idea whether it is any good:

The Oracle

My favourite appliances, some owned - some desired - are:

Atomic Espresso & Milk Frother

My first espresso machine from university days and still with me. Can take it anywhere (home/boat/caravan/camp fire) but not a inductive hob as it is made of aluminium. Not nearly as light as an Aeropress - which I also have for holidays. They will ship to the UK and stock spares. Somewhat like an Italian espresso stove top machine but with steam and frother.

Mazzer Mini

A great grinder - easy to adjust the grind profile over time as the blades wear. Efficient and does not over heat/burn the beans as they grind. Noisy, takes up space on the counter but leaves a great aroma in the air. Had to buy a separate smaller hopper as the 5L one supplied did not fit under the shelves but 0.5L is just fine for home use. Wish I had purchased the electronic dispenser too. You can find all of this gear on eBay second hand too.

Commercially, in the speciality coffee trade, Mahlkoenig is the favourite grinder:

Mahlkoenig Grinders

Drip filter machine - I have not acquired one but will one day - Technivorn. Arguably the best coffee making machine fully featured for coffee making but low on convenience factors (clock/timers etc).

Technivorn Drip Filter

I have a Sage kettle - which allows you to heat the water (filtered) to 85C as 100C scalds the grinds:
Sage Kettle

It is not cheap but when making non-builder teas it comes in to its own too. The kettle takes longer to get to 85C exactly than 100C. I am regularly impatient and just hit 100C and then let it cool for a bit then pour away...defeats the purpose but I am only human. it is stainless steel so does not add a burnt plastic taste to any hot beverage and descales easily with citric acid. Had it now for 3 years. Have had to take a dry plastic scourer to the power contact rings to remove some rust but otherwise keeps trucking on.


Z0: 861v8+ID41+MC600+Roon on a QNAP, Naim NAP300, Sonus Faber Amati Anniversario

Z1: Arcam AVR-450, Oppo BDP-103D, SkyHD+ w/RA mod, Apple TV, Kuro KRP-600A, Sonus Faber Guarneri Memento & Cremona Center M speakers, Martin Logan Descent-i Sub, 2 B&W wall speakers

Z2-6: Roon controlling MC600 Zones into Parasound amps to B&W ceiling speakers
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#259383 - 2017-02-12 06:28 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,562
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,562
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Originally Posted By spinaltap
Miele 'B' grade stock doesn't qualify for additional warranty protection outside the standard 2 year warranty period, unfortunately.


Oh no. I read that & just couldn't sleep last night. I've been worried sick about what to do for the best.

Talk about a rock n' roll lifestyle. grin


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#259385 - 2017-02-12 08:25 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,973
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,973
Loc: Bournville, UK
Originally Posted By Not'arf
Oh no. I read that & just couldn't sleep last night. I've been worried sick about what to do for the best.

Fortunately, I'm not seeking your approval.

When dropping more than a grand on a Coffee machine I want assurances that extend beyond 2 years: my other Miele appliances are covered by 10 year warranties.


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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#259386 - 2017-02-12 08:37 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: spinaltap]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,562
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,562
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Oh dear. It's a great skill, being able to laugh at ourselves...

crazy


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5500HC, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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#259387 - 2017-02-12 08:59 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2009-11-29
Posts: 1,140
Shaun Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Shaun Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2009-11-29
Posts: 1,140
Loc: Isle of Man
Well, I'm off to make myself a nice cup of Earl Grey.

Don't need a flux capacitor to do that!


M owner since 207 CD player
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#259395 - 2017-02-12 09:42 Re: Coffee Machine Suggestions [Re: Ado]
Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,973
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is
spinaltap Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2003-10-04
Posts: 1,973
Loc: Bournville, UK
Originally Posted By Ado
..given the standardisation of Nespresso or similar coffee pod systems, the heat and pump specification are the same across manufacturers and models - so in some ways buying anything other than the cheapest model is a bit of waste.

That's what I like about Nespresso: De'Longhi, Kitchen Aid, Maximix, Krups, Prodigio, and Sage models are all manufactured by Nespresso.

If it goes wrong during the 3 year warranty period, their courier will collect your machine and leave you with a replacement while yours is being repaired. Outside the warranty period, its £49 (and you still receive a loan machine while yours is being repaired).

By comparison, Bosch aren't interested in repairing Tassimo machines.


My Mac can go all the way to XI - Mac user since 1988.
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