Google Search  |  Meridian Systems  |  Meridian Streaming  |  Restaurant  |  WiKi  |  Duncan's Meridian Info  |  Board Rules  |  Restaurant Rules
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#216840 - 2014-07-16 04:26 RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases)
Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 130
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 130
Loc: Hässleholm, Sweden
I have tested the Audioquest Vodka (RJ45 cable) from the Ethernet switch to the ID41 card in my 861 and to my MS600 and experienced a major improvement in sound quality. I also tested the cable to MS200 but nothing happend.

Has anyone a good explanation to this. How can a package based transmission be improved by a cable?


861v8+ID41,HD621,G98,Arcam P35,DSP7200SE,DSP7200HCSE, SW1600,DSP320, 2xMS600,3xMS200,DSP3200,AC200, Explorer2,2x218,AD88,Prime
Edited by Carl; 2015-07-26 20:13. Edit Reason: Subject changed (pending use case split out)
Top
#216911 - 2014-07-17 00:11 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2012-08-22
Posts: 73
Ikarus_CT Offline
Mostly harmless
Ikarus_CT Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-08-22
Posts: 73
Loc: Westport, Connecticut, USA
Herman,

The most probable reason is that AQ is Cat-7 and you have been using Cat-5e. In Cat7, each twisted pair is individually shielded, whereas, I believe, Cat5e is not shielded (see a picture of Cat7 in Wikipedia)

It all depends on how long the cable is and which path it is taking. Which brings the point of MS200 - you might hear the difference if you move MS200 to where MS600 is. It might very well be that there is much less RF around MS200 as it is now located - thus less (or no) improvement.

Lastly, if you can, I would recommend that you purchase a regular Cat7 cable and re-try your tests. Even though AQ seems to have better metallurgy & connectors, the SQ difference might be negligible. A typical 3ft (~1m) Cat7 is about $3.50 here in US. Not sure how much AQ costs.

In the end, your ears should decide smile


Main : C15, MD600, Aurender N10, EMM DAC2X, Boulder 865, Oppo BDP-95, JM Labs Maestro Utopia
Office : PC, Resonessence Invicta, HD800
Top
#216936 - 2014-07-17 03:35 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 130
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 130
Loc: Hässleholm, Sweden
What you say was my idea as well (RF interference). But I switched between AQ Vodka and AQ Cinnamon and could hear an improvement in sound quality.


861v8+ID41,HD621,G98,Arcam P35,DSP7200SE,DSP7200HCSE, SW1600,DSP320, 2xMS600,3xMS200,DSP3200,AC200, Explorer2,2x218,AD88,Prime
Top
#216938 - 2014-07-17 04:21 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2012-08-22
Posts: 73
Ikarus_CT Offline
Mostly harmless
Ikarus_CT Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-08-22
Posts: 73
Loc: Westport, Connecticut, USA

Well, there goes my theory as both AQ's are Cat7.

I do hear difference between Cat5e and Cat7 but not between different Cat7's.


Main : C15, MD600, Aurender N10, EMM DAC2X, Boulder 865, Oppo BDP-95, JM Labs Maestro Utopia
Office : PC, Resonessence Invicta, HD800
Top
#216947 - 2014-07-17 08:43 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ikarus_CT]
Registered: 2007-07-11
Posts: 1,031
Kswanson Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Kswanson Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-07-11
Posts: 1,031
Loc: San Diego area, CA, USA
Are they both shielded twisted pair?

Ken


Main: G68J, 5K2s, 5Ks, HSU subs, Pio 151FD, Dish VP722, Roku, Wadia I70, Anti Mode Dual Core, Oppo 103D Vanity Lite
Office: SBT, DSP6k's, 218, Roon.
Top
#216982 - 2014-07-17 20:40 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Kswanson]
Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 906
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 906
Loc: New York, NY, USA
If they are cat 7, I believe they are by default.


Primary: MD600, MS200 (SpeakerLink to AES), Trinnov ST-2, Ayre V6-xe, Salk SS8 3x LRC.
Secondary: MC600 (whole house).
Zone one: 568.2, G57, MS200, Spatial Hologram M2SE.
Zone 2-6 (Awaiting assignment).
Top
#216991 - 2014-07-17 23:27 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Yetis]
Registered: 2001-03-04
Posts: 273
Mwiebelhaus Offline
Hitchhiker
Mwiebelhaus Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2001-03-04
Posts: 273
Loc: Colorado, USA
I use an Audioquest Diamond Ethernet cable between the SpeakerLink output of my 818 to the SpeakerLink input of my 861.

In this application, balanced digital audio is being carried between the two pieces. I found this cable clearly superior to the SpeakerLink cable from Meridian and also superior enough to the AQ Vodka cable to justify its purchase.

There is no way to know without trying for yourself. BTW, I liked the Vodka cable better than the Meridian SpeakerLink cable, which in turn is better than a Cat 7 cable in my system for my application.


mw
Top
#216992 - 2014-07-17 23:39 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Mwiebelhaus]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
Sorry, but a Balanced AES Digital connection has much different requirements to a standard Ethernet connection which adds a whole layer of Error Correction and Packet Retransmission etc, etc that a Digital PCM stream does not have

If the original Cat 5 cable was Unshielded, then PERHAPS RFI interference is a concern (even though the ID41 has built in RFI filters)

I might consider using one of these Audioquest cables to see if it makes my personal finances spreadsheet look any better wink


-
Edited by Ronnie; 2014-07-17 23:42.
Top
#216993 - 2014-07-17 23:42 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
Was it UTP or STP that was stamped onto the side of the original cable from your Router to your ID41??


-
Top
#216998 - 2014-07-18 00:24 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2001-03-04
Posts: 273
Mwiebelhaus Offline
Hitchhiker
Mwiebelhaus Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2001-03-04
Posts: 273
Loc: Colorado, USA
I always hesitate to post my experiences in tweaking performance of my Meridian setup because so many people say it makes no difference. High performance cables are a particular hot button.

From my many years of listening to music on a high resolution system as a hobby, I simply try for myself if at all curious. I arranged for a 30 day no risk audition of the Audioquest cables in my system. I removed the cat 7 cable I had made for me and substituted the AQ cables. My experiences lead me to post my comments and purchase the cable I did. If it did not make a difference or I felt it was not worth the cost, I would have returned it with nothing lost but a bit of my time. That is my attitude auditioning any thing viewed as a tweak. If curious, try for yourself. In your system, it may make a worthwhile difference like it did for me and you will enjoy your setup just that bit more. If no difference, nothing lost but your time and you move on. This is a hobby for enjoyment!


mw
Top
#217001 - 2014-07-18 00:34 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Mwiebelhaus]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
The point is that I don't doubt that Cable Construction and Termination can make a difference when used as A SpeakerLink or Balanced AES Digital connection cable.

However, when the Audioquest Cat 7 cable is used purely as an Ethernet cable, then aside from RFI Shielding, it's very difficult if not impossible for one Ethernet cable to perform differently to another.

Analog, Coax and SpeakerLink cables can offer performance differences... But SHIELDED Ethernet cables will perform equally in all applications.

If they didn't, think of the Catastrophic consequences for the Nuclear, Banking, Financial and Healthcare industries... Where both the RECEIPT and the TIMING of that Receipt is FAR more critical than it is for music reproduction.


-
Top
#217004 - 2014-07-18 01:02 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,398
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,398
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Cables? Don't get me started! I know next to nothing about the technical aspects and have never A-B tested any cables. For me, life's too short, but if someone hears (or thinks they hear) a difference, go for it! Life's too short not to upgrade!

wink


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5000C, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
Top
#217027 - 2014-07-18 06:43 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2012-04-10
Posts: 85
Matsaly Offline
Hitchhiker
Matsaly Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-04-10
Posts: 85
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
I'm with Mwielbelhaus 100%. It's a hobby for enjoyment.
I'm glad to read the experiences of fellow enthusiasts regardless of where one stands on the thorny question of cabling. The bottom line for me is whether the device/accessory/tweak gives me more musical enjoyment.


MC200, Aqua La Scala DAC, Conrad Johnson CT5 pre/LP70S amp, Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation speakers.
Shunyata Hydra power conditioner, Asst. Shunyata, Nordost, & Siltech cables.
Top
#217189 - 2014-07-20 18:56 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Matsaly]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
I don't find it hard to believe that you'd find a difference when the cable is used from the SL outputs carrying SPDIF over AES/EBU. Carrying network packets between the core and endpoint, though, I'd guess the previous cable may have been defective, or lacking in basic spec in some way?

E.g., I was getting constant dropouts using what I believed to be an OK Cat 5e cable when I first got Sooloos, and switched to some individually made/fluke tested cat 6a (using Cat 7 cable - once you put Cat 6 termination on them, you can't really call them Cat 7, can you?). I haven't had any dropouts since, but didn't particularly notice a sound quality upgrade even then.

To put my comments in perspective, I've owned very expensive cables in the past for analogue interconnects, speaker cable, and still run specialist power cables where I feel I could/can hear the difference, I just haven't noticed any difference in network transmission above and beyond a well specified and properly constructed cable, although if you can, that's the thing that matters!

Note, however, to qualify the above, that general standards of spec/manufacture are possibly poor. If you can, the best way is to buy a cable which has been individually tested. Blue Jeans cable offer this in the US, and so do Universal Networks where I bought mine in the UK. I can vouch for the quality of the latter, I now use them as patch cables for networking, not just hi-fi, and they come in lovely colours too wink


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#217195 - 2014-07-20 23:25 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2001-01-04
Posts: 247
MagnusB Offline
Hitchhiker
MagnusB Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2001-01-04
Posts: 247
Loc: California, USA
Dropouts would be caused by a defective cable, if it was really bad and caused so much retransmission the packets missed the window. Such a bad cable would be easily verifiable.


MC200, G61R, Non-SL DSP5200 and DSP5200C, DSP5000 rears
Explorer 2 for the PC (Audioengine 2+) and Headphones (HE-560)

Top
#217198 - 2014-07-21 00:43 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: MagnusB]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,070
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,070
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
I have a simple gadget for testing cat 5 cables for continuity.
Works a treat Chris smile

P.s. Those who know me will know where I bought it lol


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
Edited by ChrisLayerUK; 2014-07-21 00:52. Edit Reason: P.s added
Top
#217476 - 2014-07-24 09:31 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I also found the AQ Vodka/Diamond improved upon my cat5e UTP cables for store-core(MC200)/source(ID41) deployment in Sooloos environment. It already made an improvement for MMHR-HD621 cable and as an SL cable.



Future ID80 with video owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> HD621 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
Top
#217608 - 2014-07-25 18:25 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Interesting, might have to try one at some point...


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#217613 - 2014-07-25 18:45 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Might be cheaper to buy a non UTP cable.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#235852 - 2015-05-29 23:12 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
Loc: Bristol, UK
It's been a while since I posted here, but seeing the brave comments from Mwiebelhaus and Crion, based on their experience, I thought I'd share my own experience with Ethernet cables.

I've been using CAT 7 cables on the SpeakerLink runs between 808v5 and 7200s for a couple of years, but the right-hand cable went faulty a few weeks ago. I was thinking about buying some of Meridian's own CAT 7 cable, but thought I'd look (or rather listen to) other options at the same time. I've experimented with different grades of Ethernet cables on my SpeakerLink runs in the past. While the improvements weren't jaw-dropping, there were audible improvements between CAT 5 and CAT 6, and the CAT 7 brought readily discernible gains in openness and coherence.

So I tried some high quality CAT 7 cable, not an audiophile cable, just a high quality one (same type as I use on the 20m run from my MD600 to 808v5). As a bit of a punt, I asked my dealer if they could get me a demo set of AQ Vodkas and they got me a set in a few days.

I was hoping the difference in the Vodkas over good quality CAT 7 would be marginal, as it would save me quite a lot of money, head-scratching and perhaps a little abuse. Well, the unexpected embuggerance was that the Vodkas made a big difference in my system. The dealer let me keep the cables for three weeks, so there was plenty of time to listen properly and understand the differences. In my system the key changes are:
1. A richer, warmer and more natural sound
2. An real increase in speed and dynamics
3. Much wider and more coherent soundstage, with significantly more detail and control
4. A more musical and involving sound overall

I wouldn't suggest that everyone will experience the same level of benefit. My system has had quite a lot of honing, with dedicated mains, balanced power feeding the MD600, mechanical isolation etc. But in any well-sorted system around this level of quality (800 series, 7200 or 5200 etc.) I think you'd hear a very noticeable musical gain.

I didn't try the AQ cables either side of the Vodka (Forrest, Pearl, Diamond etc.) so can't comment on their relative impact on the music. Nor did I try the toe-curlingly expensive Chord Company 'Tuned Array' cables.

In the AQ range, the cost of AQ Diamonds is prohibitive for me, whereas the Vodkas, while hardly cheap, produce a very significant gain across many aspects of the music. With my system and my ears, it's not something I can do without now: the music is just much more involving. So I've ordered a set at the right lengths for my setup to replace the demo set.

Theory and preconceptions can sometimes get a little in the way of things. If you have good system and get a lot of joy from your music, borrow a set and experience them for yourself. You can't loose out from this experience, other than perhaps taking up some of your time installing the cables and listening to music.

Please don't shoot me for posting my experience. I'm sharing it because my system makes more involving music now and I think some people on the forum might experience the same enjoyment.


808v5, MD600 & DSP7200.1
Dedicated audio mains supply
Top
#235854 - 2015-05-30 06:44 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Interesting, thanks for sharing!


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#235856 - 2015-05-30 07:13 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Originally Posted By DaveyC
It's been a while since I posted here, but seeing the brave comments from Mwiebelhaus and Crion, based on their experience, I thought I'd share my own experience with Ethernet cables.
I think the use of different cables affecting audio presentation for SpeakerLink audio connections is largely accepted, it is the use of exotic cables over appropriately specified network cabling for network use that is debatable.

In the case of Crion, his network test was vs. a UTP cable, hardly a fair comparison as in some circumstances, omitting any form of shielding as per a UTP cable may not be appropriate for the job as it allows EMI ingress into the chain, again, an accepted issue. I don't know if he ever repeated using a shielded or screened cable.

Iirc that Mwiebelhaus comment was regarding SpeakerLink.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#235858 - 2015-05-30 07:37 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
+1

I find notable differences in SQ between SPDIF cables on the 818-DSP run, and SpeakerLink run, when I had 5200s. However, I've never noticed an audible difference on the networking runs (e.g., MC200-Switch-818) only a reliability difference with good quality, shielded Cat 7 (made up as Cat 6+ due to termination).


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#235871 - 2015-05-30 11:16 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 906
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 906
Loc: New York, NY, USA
I would add that there is a big difference in the world of patch cables. While for the $$$$, I will assume there are high standards for vodka cables, while picking any old cat7 isn't really a fair fight. I would call out Black box, but there are others.

I bet one of the premium network cable manufacturers actually make the audioquest.


Primary: MD600, MS200 (SpeakerLink to AES), Trinnov ST-2, Ayre V6-xe, Salk SS8 3x LRC.
Secondary: MC600 (whole house).
Zone one: 568.2, G57, MS200, Spatial Hologram M2SE.
Zone 2-6 (Awaiting assignment).
Top
#235886 - 2015-05-30 15:28 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
Loc: Bristol, UK
Originally Posted By Ian
Originally Posted By DaveyC
It's been a while since I posted here, but seeing the brave comments from Mwiebelhaus and Crion, based on their experience, I thought I'd share my own experience with Ethernet cables.
I think the use of different cables affecting audio presentation for SpeakerLink audio connections is largely accepted, it is the use of exotic cables over appropriately specified network cabling for network use that is debatable.

In the case of Crion, his network test was vs. a UTP cable, hardly a fair comparison as in some circumstances, omitting any form of shielding as per a UTP cable may not be appropriate for the job as it allows EMI ingress into the chain, again, an accepted issue. I don't know if he ever repeated using a shielded or screened cable.

Iirc that Mwiebelhaus comment was regarding SpeakerLink.


Hi Ian,

Agreed, intuition suggests reduced benefits or no benefits running audiophile Ethernet cables on a network link running TCPIP.

In spite of my own intuition, I've had surprising experiences in playing around with the link from MD600 to 808. The first was last year, was when I put a GISO in the last 30cm of the network cable run before the 808 (gains similar in nature to those from the AQ Vodkas). Just a couple of weeks ago, I borrowed a second GISO from a friend and put it in the Ethernet chain immediately up-stream of the MD600 (i.e. between switch & MD600). I had a hunch that there might be some gain, but the reality was a much bigger gain than putting in the first GISO. This was obviously an easy and completely cost-free test, but the scale of improvement really threw me.

How this might be true, against well-founded expectation with TCPIP in play, ties back to a thread we had going a year or so back. It talked about RF carried on the four twisted-pair signal conductors and on inner and outer screens in an Ethernet cable. Given what TCPIP does (explained in detail by Ronnie) I can only assume that the gains in an Ethernet network link are down to removing substantial amounts of RF noise that has made its way into the network at various points. While TCPIP is impregnable in preserving the integrity of the packet data stream, it doesn't operate at all in the analogue signal domain, and would therefore allow RF noise (on both signal and screen conductors) to propagate into audio devices and onwards down the food chain, at undiminished amplitude.

I'm no RF expert, audio engineer or high-frequency cable designer, but my gut feel is that RF noise inside audio devices does much more damage to music than we might expect, to the extent that merely achieving a CAT 6 or CAT 7 standard on a cable falls some way short of the optimum when it comes to limiting RF ingress along the full length of the chain. This would explain why two GISOs can have such a big impact. While this could explain what I heard, I'm still very surprised by the extent of the gain.

BTW the impact of the AQ Vodkas was very noticeable before adding the second GISO, but became much more dramatic after adding it. I ran another test with the second GISO in place, moving from Vodkas (between 808v5 & DSPs) back to CAT 7 and back to Vodka. My friend who'd brought over the second GISO was with me at the time and it was one of those instant-grin experiences when we put the Vodkas back in. So it looks like the gains from the Vodkas where much more apparent with the further reduction in noise and general grunge that the second GISO brought about.

The impact of the second GISO really gets me thinking about the extent to which RF impacts the music. I've spent several years putting a lot of thought and effort into getting rid of RF in the mains and other signal cables, all to good effect, but this experience suggests I may be less far down the road than I thought :-(


808v5, MD600 & DSP7200.1
Dedicated audio mains supply
Top
#235887 - 2015-05-30 15:38 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
I find it a plausible hypothesis that deleterious effects might be RFI bourne down network cables into hi-fi equipment, rather than this being a network packet issue - although I have no test for this, it seems reasonable.

Perhaps I didn't notice a difference because I was already using high quality shielded network cable, and went to an even higher grade to troubleshoot a glitch in the network dropping. Alternatively, does your 808 have ID40 or ID41 - the latter, which my 818 has, did specifically include revisions to combat this type of interference, iirc.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#235918 - 2015-05-31 14:17 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2012-04-01
Posts: 97
CharlieU Offline
Hitchhiker
CharlieU Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-04-01
Posts: 97
Loc: Florida, USA
Let me help you get further down your road. RF energy is everywhere and you can't avoid it. You don't help the problem if you have a wireless network, a microwave oven or digital devices in your home. RFI can wreak havoc with your music, but only if the manufacturer of the equipment didn't properly shield and ground the RF sensitive components. Can you believe that some crazies (like me) attach antennas to bring more RF into their gear just to listen to radio stations? Even if you are in a lead lined room, the digital components of your audio gear are generating RF that can be harmful to unit they are in and others near it. The question again is how well it's manufactured.

When you are talking about Cat 5e or 6 ethernet cable, there are differences in the quality of cable. However, they are all designed to be able to carry a 1Gbs data signal for 100 meters with no loss. There are some that are specially designed to be used in environments that have extreme RF noise levels. This typically isn't your normal home or even a computer data center. Can they bring more RFI in to your equipment? Yes. Is it something to worry about? Considering the amount of self generated RFI in digital equipment, this is a pittance and not worth worrying about.

Now to help you down your road. Tubes! Dump all that digital stuff and go pure analog. No RF to worry about. You can move to a different obsession with tube swapping to reach that audio nirvana. If you are too heavily invested in digital, then your only choice is to swap out the copper connections for fiber optics. Hope this helped.


QNAP, MS600, MS200, Anthem AVM 50v, B&W 804S, JL Fathom 113 (2)
Top
#235930 - 2015-05-31 20:36 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
Loc: Bristol, UK
Hi,

Yes, certainly makes sense to look at things this way. Yes, my 808v5 does have the ID41 card. I think this stuff is all down to how much RF is getting in, at what levels and where.

Then of course, the big question is the extent to which the various gadgets can remove the RF.

As to how much you hear the influence, I guess it's down to your system, how much effort you've put into setting it up, the environment (lots of RF generating devices etc) and how offended your ears are by the effect of RF.

For sure, this has really got me thinking now.


808v5, MD600 & DSP7200.1
Dedicated audio mains supply
Top
#235956 - 2015-06-01 11:59 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Thanks for sharing DaveyC. I was wondering if a Giso-GB near the store/core would be beneficial in addition to the manufacturer recommended placement @ID41.

Recently I also added additional chassi-grounding cables (small spade under a chassi screw) and connected it to my mains filtering with central ground post. I actually thought this would be a waste of time but since it was a part of my mains filtering package I took the bait.

Additional grounding affected all my Meridian components soundcharacter, I started with front DSP speakers and evaluated. Then connected the 861v8, evaluated, then connected the BD-Streamer and evalutated. After a few days connected the HD621 and evaluated. The mains filter is the Shunyata Triton V2, I use one for the front DSP speakers and one for front-end Preamp/Source/HD621.

If I would characterize the chassi grounding procedure result it would be with some initial sibilance that later toned down. Greater flow, truer texture, truer attack and decay of piano, a little more pluck on strings, more presence on vocals, omnipresent bass, better integration between mains/center. In other words, Very nice!

I'm not saying everyone should rush out and buy a Triton v2 mains filtering with built-in grounding posts. But I do think this warrants more investigation of additional chassigrounding for those inclined.




Future ID80 with video owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> HD621 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
Top
#235963 - 2015-06-01 12:50 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,298
ncpl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ncpl Offline

President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-02-14
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Surrey, UK
Crion,

I haven't found that the GISO makes much difference at all in front of the ID41. I think therefore that the ID41 is designed well to deal with RFI.
I would expect other devices to benefit more though with the GISO. It seems a well built little unit.

I haven't gotten around to putting my GISO on the sale board yet but will do at some time.


Rgds,
Nick

#15SE
Top
#235984 - 2015-06-01 18:02 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Crion - I can identify with all of that, having been a Russ Andrews Super Purifier Block user for years. It has a dedicated earthing terminal which I run to star earthing rods in the back garden with very low impedance cable (in addition to the standard mains earthing of course). The difference when the dedicated earth is unplugged is noticeable. You can also chassis earth each piece of equipment, as you've suggested, but it depends on the specific piece of gear as to whether this provides benefit or not, very much a suck it and see thing.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#236043 - 2015-06-02 22:02 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2012-06-08
Posts: 253
Kerry Offline
Hitchhiker
Kerry Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-06-08
Posts: 253
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Meridian SpeakerLink cables are basically SPDIF cables, are they not? I have a special cable made that plugs into the SpeakerLink jack of my MS600 and the other end has an XLR termination that plugs into the AES input of my DAC.

I've heard pretty big differences in sound in SPDIF cables over the years, so I'm not surprised you are hearing this difference in sound between different cables.


Roon, MS600, Simaudio 780D, Simaudio P-8/W-8 and Revel Studio 2s
Top
#236047 - 2015-06-03 05:31 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Kerry]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
SpeakerLink is basically AES/EBU, i.e. balanced digital the sort of cables that are run for x00m in studios and venues including as spaghetti.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#236065 - 2015-06-03 13:36 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2012-06-08
Posts: 253
Kerry Offline
Hitchhiker
Kerry Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-06-08
Posts: 253
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Thanks for the correction Ian, that's why I meant to say. With this type of cable, different brands will alter the sound in different ways.


Roon, MS600, Simaudio 780D, Simaudio P-8/W-8 and Revel Studio 2s
Top
#236068 - 2015-06-03 15:24 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Kerry]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
There was a thread some time back discussing this, but I can't find it now - however, although Speakerlink uses an AES/EBU cable type, it is still transmitted as SPDIF down it (so it's technically SPDIF over AES/EBU). At least that was my understanding of the conclusions.

Edit - found the previous thread MS200 Toslink / SpeakerLink to Coax Conversion Options, just in case it's of interest.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#236071 - 2015-06-03 16:55 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
The data format of SPDIF and AES/? Is identical except for one data bit present in both but has different meaning. AES is basically professional, SPDIF is consumer of same thing but some consumer restrictions in SPDIF are not present in AES.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#236075 - 2015-06-03 19:06 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Ian - is AES/EBU considered more robust over distance than SPDIF, much as analogue balanced runs are over single ended?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#236110 - 2015-06-04 08:12 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
I think there may be confusion between AES and SPDIF formats at different levels. AES defines a number of standards which use different cable construction. So you can have over balanced or unbalanced connections. It also defines max and min voltages and is very tolerant to this. So an AES cable over balanced cable terminated by XLR, often referred to as AES/EBU is going to be pretty tolerant of the long distances and abuse that it is designed to handle.

I don't know what voltage SpeakerLink uses but it too runs over a balanced connection. I would imagine that it is equally robust for the application that it was defined for, which is going to be over much shorter distances.

Which leaves the question of why cable differences have an affect.

I am ex broadcast and events industry, studio and OB, analogue and digital. I've seen the sort of abuse that these cables are put through by engineers and the environment. I'm not saying that no one cares as they do, but quality is not driven by the price tag of the cable, but by sound engineering principles such as proven design and construction.

A few years back I was doing a lot of OB work including connecting up our kit (Chyron, Viz etc.) over HD-SDI. We were running to a big screen over about 1/3 mile of cabling and multiple bits of kit in the scanner/truck. I asked the OB guys what cable it was - bog standard Belden hand terminated on the floor in front of me.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#236111 - 2015-06-04 08:38 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Interesting, thanks for that! I used to work in post production, before becoming a writer, by the way.

I have found that Belden 1694A is a very nice sounding SPDIF cable when correctly terminated with Canare crimp plugs, it's what I use on my DSP runs now.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#236126 - 2015-06-04 15:35 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 151
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker
Frode Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 151
Loc: Oslo, Norway
How can it be SQ difference in a digital balanced audio stream? I belive(d) that was impossible. Are there any professional studies supporting such differences?

I guess I have gone the opposite direction, switching to super cheap cables.

/Frode


G65, HD621, DSP7200SE, DSP5200HCSE, DSP5200SE, MC200, Roon on Qnap, Velodyne DD12+.
Top
#236137 - 2015-06-04 18:33 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Frode]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Probably poor design, poor build, inappropriate specification, poor audio memory, a case of the emperors new clothes, EMI and a bit of black magic.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#236154 - 2015-06-05 08:58 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
.. in other words, complete BS. wink

Or you can try an AQ Vodka and a Giso GB and make up your own mind. But I would emphasize that it should come after correct speaker placement and the usual hardware upgrade considerations where the upgrade money have the most documented effect on this forum.


Future ID80 with video owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> HD621 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
Top
#236156 - 2015-06-05 09:41 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
+1

In the end my ears are always the final arbiter where hi-fi is concerned.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#236164 - 2015-06-05 11:58 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Originally Posted By Crion
.. in other words, complete BS. wink


Not at all, only a case of the emperors new clothes and a bit of black magic fall into the realms of BS. The others have a scientifically explanation.

I'm of the view that the human body is fallible and that certain functions, such as hearing can change over time or be influenced by the brain and as such, cannot be trusted to give a comparable set of results.

However, give me a set of tests where the results are undertaken in a scientifically verifiable and irrefutable way and my views will be different. Unfortunately, much of the hifi world is devoid of this.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#236167 - 2015-06-05 13:44 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2004-04-05
Posts: 233
JCD Offline
Hitchhiker
JCD Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2004-04-05
Posts: 233
Loc: West London, UK
Given the comments re AES/EBU being the standard, has anyone considered / used a specialist digital cable such as this Canford DST in combination with a standard twisted pair cable for Meridian Comms signalling?

That is use standard Cat5e/6/7 cable for the signalling and the specialist screened cable for the +ve and -ve AES/EBU and signal earth. Clearly this would require custom termination at the RJ45.

Just a thought, albeit, not as convenient as using a standard Cat7 alone.

Thoughts given that the specialist cable would seem to be very well screened and modest in price?

John


808v6, M60, MC200, HD621, Lumagen XE, 504, SB Touch, 563, 201, 204, 208, MPMAX 221, M80, Explorer, Explorer2.
Top
#236954 - 2015-06-20 08:28 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By DaveyC
Agreed, intuition suggests reduced benefits or no benefits running audiophile Ethernet cables on a network link running TCPIP.
Hello DaveyC.

I found your GISO thread last year sparked one of the most interesting discussions on this forum. However, I am at a loss to understand how Audioquest Vodka can improve sound quality compared with Cat7 by giving a greater rejection of RFI. If the latter is built to spec then its screening and shielding should be more than enough to reject RFI. I understand the role of the GISO in rejecting RFI already in the system.

I also asked Meridian if there was any sound quality difference between their flat SpeakerLink cable and their round profile Cat7 used primarily by installers. I was told that both sounded identical over shortish runs.

Could you have been previously using an inferior Cat7 that did not conform to specification?

Top
#237478 - 2015-07-06 18:55 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Well Gents (No Ladies here?)

I did it, I performed the ultimate Dirty Deed..



I put these Audioquest Diamond RJ/E on my 3 front speakers as SpeakerLink Cables.

I had well constructed cat6a cables in place before.

I could hear the the sound of a flushing toilet as I unpacked the cables from their cheap but halfclassy velour bags without a logo.

I went to the Hot Studio (Damn it's hot, steamy and sweaty) Yoga class for 60 minutes before any critical listening...

The result, as I put myself on the sofa and pressed the Swim All albums button, I went to sleep...

Woke up a few hours later, this sounds really nice! shocked

I had a Sooloos Swim streak of some really good albums, but I must confess that the system does actually sound better. I was prepared to make the most expensive mistake so far in HiFi but it seems many who have tried these expensive ethernet cables can't deny that there is something happening that is beneficial to the sound.

Well that's my report for AQ Diamonds as front SpeakerLink Cables in a Meridian system.


Future ID80 with video owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> HD621 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
Top
#237488 - 2015-07-07 06:57 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2011-01-06
Posts: 497
Martins HiFi Offline
Meridian Partner Paranoid android
Martins HiFi Offline
Meridian Partner
Paranoid android

Registered: 2011-01-06
Posts: 497
Loc: Norwich, UK
Nice cables!!

smile

One we should try...!

I have played with The Chord Company Anthem, Signature & Sarum...

If you're open minded, try it!

Ian.


Martins HiFi Meridian Partner for East Anglia 01603 627010
Our History Meet the Team
Top
#238090 - 2015-07-26 09:14 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
What I am about to write will provoke cable sceptics and disappoint those who have invested in Vodkas. However, that is not my intention.

My curiosity was aroused by the references to Audioquest Vodka and Diamond cables improving sound quality. As you can see, my post above reported that I found it hard to understand how this could be the case. But a PM from another HH further stimulated my interest. And at about the same time a friend with a Naim system installed new SL cables that transformed the quality of his sound. [I know that digital and analogue systems and digital and analogue cables are not the same.]

I borrowed two runs of Vodka from my dealer and installed them in daisy-chain configuration (necessitated by the length of the cables)for comparison with my home-run configured cat7. My 2 channel system comprises an 808v5 and 8kSEs. I could detect no difference in sound quality. My dealer called in later and also struggled to find any improvement with the Vodkas.

At my request my dealer had also arranged to borrow some Chord Anthem cables which he had brought with him. With no sense of anticipation these were swapped into the system. Surprisingly, these delivered a very worthwhile improvement in sound quality. Scale, clarity and focus were all improved.

Accordingly, I asked to borrow other cables in Chord's range to see if further benefits could be gained. I ended up with the full range of Signature, Indigo and Sarum to add to the Anthems. I have had all these cables on extended loan for nearly three weeks. The cheapest Anthems offered the most dramatic improvement when compared with the cat7. There was a small incremental gain from the Anthem to the Signature and from the Signature to the Indigo. The difference between the Indigo and the Sarum was also subtle. Sarum is approximately seven times more expensive than Anthem making Anthem something of a bargain. Apart from my family, my findings were also endorsed by two other experienced hi-fi enthusiasts who are used to evaluating equipment. I was under no pressure to buy any of these cables

Cable discussions seem to elicit emotional responses from people that do not apply to other areas of hi-fi. This has made many wary of taking cables as seriously as other parts of their system. Some very distinguished members did not change over to SSTP spec cat cables until less than a year ago. Other very distinguished people put their faith in Meridian and bought branded cable "for peace of mind". However, I urge you to borrow some Chord Anthem cables from your dealer. You may be as surprised as I was at the improvement that they bring. You have nothing to lose but a few hours of your time. Can I explain why these cables should bring such a desirable improvement in sound quality? No.

I now have a longer length of Anthem and have been able to enjoy the advantage of a home run connection. This offered even more scale, clarity and focus. So, at the very least, if your equipment allows, try a home run configuration if you do not already have that installed.

I must express my thanks to Audioquest and Chord for allowing me the luxury of such an extended home trial. And thanks also to Sevenoaks Exeter for making all the arrangements.

Top
#238093 - 2015-07-26 09:42 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 430
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 430
Loc: Land van Maas en Waal, Netherl...
Nice post. It is not clear to me if you have tried and compared Meridian SpeakerLink as well prior to this test?

Cheers!


System 1: MC200, 818v3, DSP7200SE
System 2: DSP5000.1, Monarchy DIP24/96, Squeezebox Duet.
Office: MS200, STAX SRM-323II, SR303
Top
#238095 - 2015-07-26 10:02 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
What you hear is what you hear; thanks for posting. I am, however, curious to know whether or not the different cables were laid in exactly the same position for the tests. I ask this as interference and cross-talk are very real phenomena.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
Top
#238101 - 2015-07-26 11:22 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
And the difference in better designed cables may be that they offer a higher degree of immunity to interference/crosstalk...


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#238103 - 2015-07-26 12:28 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Absolutely.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
Top
#238104 - 2015-07-26 13:41 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: JaapJan]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By JaapJan
Nice post. It is not clear to me if you have tried and compared Meridian SpeakerLink as well prior to this test?
I have heard SpeakerLink in other systems but not my own. Acknowledging the danger of relying on carrying sounds in one's head, even of familiar material, and that different systems and rooms sound different, I would suggest that Chord Anthem shows a distinct improvement. But such a statement must be tentative and conditional!

Top
#238105 - 2015-07-26 13:43 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By VirusKiller
What you hear is what you hear; thanks for posting. I am, however, curious to know whether or not the different cables were laid in exactly the same position for the tests. I ask this as interference and cross-talk are very real phenomena.
All cables were routed very carefully, particularly with regard to power cables, and in exactly the same position.
The only exception is the longer cable that permitted a home run configuration. But this was also very carefully placed.

Top
#238107 - 2015-07-26 14:48 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
Thanks for posting those very interesting observations Asa

However, I do wonder if this thread of "Ethernet Cables" is the best thread to post your observations??

Pedantic I know, but still importantly IMHO... you used all the cables mentioned as AES/EBU Digital cables to connect your 808 to your D8kSE's.

And as you know, in that application, none of Ethernet's inherent advantages of Check-Sums; Error Correction and Data Retransmission would then be used in the "Speakerlink" connection from 808v5 to DSP's.

It doesn't change the validity of your findings in any way... but it is worth stating again that while your findings are certainly relevant to audio data transferred via AES/EBU... but may not apply to audio data transferred via Ethernet protocols.


-
Top
#238108 - 2015-07-26 14:56 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
The pictures of the Audioquest Vodka teardown / stripdown at the link below might give people a better understanding of what they might getting for their money........masking tape included!!!

Audioquest Vodka cable Teardown



-
Top
#238112 - 2015-07-26 18:42 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,479
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,479
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By Ronnie
... I do wonder if this thread of "Ethernet Cables" is the best thread to post your observations??
I can understand why as this topic is a bit of a muddle with existing discussions on both Eithernet network and SpeakerLink use cases. I'll have a look at splitting it out into two topics with appropriate titles.

In the meantime I've changed the topic title to accommodate both.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
Top
#238113 - 2015-07-26 18:53 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
Loc: Bristol, UK
Thanks for an informative post and great to see someone else willing to invest time and effort to experience the reality of using audiophile RJ45 cables in a high-end system. No issue at all with hearing that Vodkas don’t cut it in your system (I only cried for an hour) – I’ll try to get my hands on some Chord Anthem when I have the chance. After getting surprisingly good results at a friend’s house yesterday and repeating the findings in my own system today, I’m now looking to upgrade the link between my Ethernet switch and MD600.

I’m sure there are many on this forum who are open minded on the impact of RJ45 cables, but it’s still startling to see how aggressive some people get in the face of real-world experience reported by forum members who are clearly highly coherent and own well-sorted high-end systems.

I’ve always felt that an essential prerequisite for real science, discovery and progress, is humility. Whatever one’s real or perceived level of knowledge in a given arena of science, the absence of humility, curiosity and of any urge to experiment and discover new things, infallibly creates an ‘anti-science’ environment, in which preconception and complacency dominate, and progress withers away.

I trained as a scientist and engineer. In my late teens and early twenties, with that early gift of naiveté in the excitement of learning, I dared to think that I knew a quite a lot about quite a lot of things. Now, as every day passes and I experience more of reality, I become increasingly aware of how much I don’t know. I like this: it means there’s a lot to experience that’s new and great things to discover and share with other people who love music. If I discover something that makes music sound better, I feel an urge to share it with other music lovers. If I discover something that does the opposite, I’m keen to share that experience to save others making the same mistake.

So I’m grateful that high end audio manufactures largely remain curious, hungry and keen to move forward. Without doubt, one of the fabulous outcomes of that mind-set is the wonderful Meridian experience that so many of us enjoy today. I remember the times when some stated vociferously that ‘all CD players sound the alike, because they’re digital’. That small victory of curiosity over complacency has brought us wonderful music and will certainly bring us much more in the future.

So here’s to humility and curiosity; here’s to willingness to allow one’s ‘theory of how things are’ to be modified a little by real-world experience, and here’s to the urge to hear music that’s more involving.

Cheers & happy listening,
Dave


808v5, MD600 & DSP7200.1
Dedicated audio mains supply
Top
#238114 - 2015-07-26 18:59 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 587
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 587
Loc: Cologne, DE & Cheltenham, UK.
It's good to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out. smirk


Meridian : 861v8 + ID41 + HD621 + 218, 2*SE-update DSP8.2K's, SE-update DSP7200HC. Roon.
TAG McLaren : DVD32R-PSM192, T32R+DAB, 100x5R:10. B&W : 4*SCMS. Logitech : Squeezebox Touches & Duets.
Sim2 HT380 DLP, Panasonic TX-P60ZT60E, SKY HD+, SlingBox HD Pro, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Oppo BDP-103EU.
Top
#238115 - 2015-07-26 19:23 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Rolski]
Registered: 2003-09-02
Posts: 296
Bee Offline
Hitchhiker
Bee Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2003-09-02
Posts: 296
Loc: Bedfordshire, UK
Are there also audiophile grade switches too? It would seem strange to upgrade cables if the switch is also not optimised.


Thanks, Edd
Top
#238116 - 2015-07-26 19:25 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
Loc: Bristol, UK
Originally Posted By Carl
Originally Posted By Ronnie
... I do wonder if this thread of "Ethernet Cables" is the best thread to post your observations??
I can understand why as this topic is a bit of a muddle with existing discussions on both Eithernet network and SpeakerLink use cases. I'll have a look at splitting it out into two topics with appropriate titles.

In the meantime I've changed the topic title to accommodate both.
Hi Carl,

I humbly suggest that, based on my experience (and that of a few others on the forum) of experimenting with RJ45 cables in both TCPIP and non-TCPIP applications, we should positively avoid the split.

I spent several hours experimenting with various things at a friend's house yesterday, to very good effect. The last thing we did was to add a short AQ Vodka cable (loaned by Sevenoaks Bristol) between switch & MD600. We very nearly didn't bother, as we were a bit knackered and both agreed beforehand that we expected little, if any change. What we heard was certainly on a par with what I heard when I moved to Vodkas on my Speakerlink runs. Being both baffled and excited, I spent a few hours doing similar things to my own system today.

No question whatsoever, the gain is there and it's not subtle. My findings are that the general characteristics of the gains heard in a Speakerlink application are faithfully carried over into Ethernet applications where TCPIP is in play.

In the presence of TCPIP, this may seem mad, bonkers and slightly frightening, but it's very true, and there is plenty of quite basic science to support the finding. Again, I’d caveat my experience in that my system is very well sorted, so it may be that the impact is less obvious in standard systems where there has been no effort to optimise the overall setup. The fact that the same happens in both environments is certainly worthy of discussion and it’d be a shame to separate the two.

By the way, to anyone who'd like to find out whether I'm just plain bonkers, you’d be very welcome to drop by my place in Bristol for a listen and a glass of wine.

PS what happened to that rather nice idea about visiting other forum members for a listen …?

Dave


808v5, MD600 & DSP7200.1
Dedicated audio mains supply
Top
#238117 - 2015-07-26 19:36 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Bee]
Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
Loc: Bristol, UK
Originally Posted By Bee
Are there also audiophile grade switches too? It would seem strange to upgrade cables if the switch is also not optimised.
Hi Bee,

Sorry for the sudden raft of posts. Very good point - I too have been thinking about switches for some time. The potential is clear: crappy wall-wart power supplies squirting 500kHz RF into your switch and network, no grounding, minimal RF protection etc. all point to the possibility of better switches.

I've experimented quite extensively (and painfully) with a professional grade switch in the last three weeks, with a built in linear power supply, soldered power connections and proper earthing via an IEC connector. I'm not going to make any suggestions, as I can't yet create consistent and substantial results.

I've been tearing my hair out wondering why I'm not getting any substantial gains from a device that is so clearly electrically superior, but all I've really got are some subtle gains, always offset by some bigger losses.

That said, I finally got the switch to work well in my system this evening, but that was after a lot of buggering about with earthing, balanced power and lots of head-banging.

I'll let you know if I get to a point of getting substantial gains that are repeatable. So far, nothing on the scale of gains to be had from Ethernet cable changes. My gut feel is that the switch may turn out not to be a big contributor, but I need to take my own council and hold my opinion for now ...

Cheers
Dave


808v5, MD600 & DSP7200.1
Dedicated audio mains supply
Top
#238118 - 2015-07-26 19:57 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By DaveyC
My findings are that the general characteristics of the gains heard in a Speakerlink application are faithfully carried over into Ethernet applications where TCPIP is in play.Dave
And there are many here who have likewise experimented with alleged 'better quality' Ethernet cabling and found zero differences... always assuming that Shielded and Screened Cables are used... and that all streaming audio components are on a dedicated switch to avoid impact [RFI/EMI] from other activities elsewhere on the network
Originally Posted By DaveyC
In the presence of TCPIP, this may seem mad, bonkers and slightly frightening, but it's very true, and there is plenty of quite basic science to support the finding.
"Science" involves the process of "Peer Reviewing"... so if you could please point at any Peer Reviewed & Independent articles which claim that 'better' Ethernet cables improve the Ethernet data transmission itself??

It's generally accepted that RFI/EMI migration to the DAC is the only means by which Audio Quality can be impacted... a process that has nothing to do with the efficacy of Ethernet and TCP/IP transmission.

And RFI/EMI mitigation is something that can quite easily and cheaply be achieved rather than spending unnecessarily large amounts amounts of money on Ethernet cables for which there is simply zero Peer Reviewing available.

The 'transmission' of Audio Data via Analog, SPDIF and AES / EBU methods ALL can benefit [to varying degrees] from properly constructed cables [i.e. properly constructed and high retail prices are not always the same thing]... but audio data transfer by Ethernet Packets and IP addressing is a different matter.


-
Top
#238119 - 2015-07-26 20:11 Re: Ethernet cables [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Following on from Ronnies post linking the the cable teardown, Im looking forward to the results from this. Maybe for the first time I will read something scientifically verifiable to prove that AQ/data could be affected by (other than poorly designed, badly constructed, out of specification, maliciously treated, poorly deployed or simply faulty) network data cables, something that the last 30+ years experience in computer networking have failed to reveal. Or maybe not...

I've heard some huge differences in AQ and the only thing that has changed between the listening experiences was time of day, posture or wellbeing, oh, and the odd glass of alcohol.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#238120 - 2015-07-26 20:31 Re: Ethernet cables [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
Loc: Bristol, UK
More wine is always a good idea ... smile

I never do any serious listing unless I've had at least shix bottles.


808v5, MD600 & DSP7200.1
Dedicated audio mains supply
Top
#238129 - 2015-07-27 08:19 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By Ronnie
Thanks for posting those very interesting observations Asa

However, I do wonder if this thread of "Ethernet Cables" is the best thread to post your observations??

Pedantic I know, but still importantly IMHO... you used all the cables mentioned as AES/EBU Digital cables to connect your 808 to your D8kSE's.

And as you know, in that application, none of Ethernet's inherent advantages of Check-Sums; Error Correction and Data Retransmission would then be used in the "Speakerlink" connection from 808v5 to DSP's.

It doesn't change the validity of your findings in any way... but it is worth stating again that while your findings are certainly relevant to audio data transferred via AES/EBU... but may not apply to audio data transferred via Ethernet protocols.


I agree with your points and of course understand the difference between an Ethernet cable and a SpeakerLink cable. The confusion to which you refer is of course heightened by Chord explicitly labelling their cables as Ethernet. I have merely been using their Ethernet cables for SpeakerLink purposes.

Should you borrow some cables for SpeakerLink purposes you need to specify that they are being used as SpeakerLink. I have been told that Meridian do not use standard configuration for the connections.

Top
#238130 - 2015-07-27 08:27 Re: Ethernet cables [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By Ian
Following on from Ronnies post linking the the cable teardown, Im looking forward to the results from this. Maybe for the first time I will read something scientifically verifiable to prove that AQ/data could be affected by (other than poorly designed, badly constructed, out of specification, maliciously treated, poorly deployed or simply faulty) network data cables, something that the last 30+ years experience in computer networking have failed to reveal. Or maybe not...

I've heard some huge differences in AQ and the only thing that has changed between the listening experiences was time of day, posture or wellbeing, oh, and the odd glass of alcohol.
I note your scepticism. But please note that my post concerned cables used as SpeakerLink. And I did not find any benefits from using Audioquest Vodka. And, unlike you, I certainly did not resort to vodka or any other alcohol. So, why not borrow some cables and decide for yourself rather than merely read other people's findings?

Top
#238131 - 2015-07-27 08:34 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
Hi Asa
My post above wasn't written so much towards yourself as it was to others reading this thread, who may not understand the distinction between Speakerlink and 'true' Ethernet use

I can understand the manufacturers labelling these cables as "Ethernet", as that is mainly what they will be used as......does anyone know of any other Manufacturer who uses Ethernet cables to carry a Balanced AES signal??........even as an interconnect between rack components??........or even if there are other Speakers out there that accept Ethernet / Speakerlink connections??

I wonder about Meridian's Speakerlink connections being "different".......they market their two cables as Cat 5 and Cat 7.......so changing the Connections would compromise this claim??

So am I correct in saying that if I ask Chord for an Anthem cable.......and tell them that it's for a Speakerlink application......that they will give me a different cable, compared to if I asked for an Anthem cable for Ethernet duty??

If so, do you have any idea how the connections differ??


-
Edited by Ronnie; 2015-07-27 08:38.
Top
#238132 - 2015-07-27 08:35 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By Ronnie
Thanks for posting those very interesting observations Asa

However, I do wonder if this thread of "Ethernet Cables" is the best thread to post your observations??

Pedantic I know, but still importantly IMHO... you used all the cables mentioned as AES/EBU Digital cables to connect your 808 to your D8kSE's.

And as you know, in that application, none of Ethernet's inherent advantages of Check-Sums; Error Correction and Data Retransmission would then be used in the "Speakerlink" connection from 808v5 to DSP's.

It doesn't change the validity of your findings in any way... but it is worth stating again that while your findings are certainly relevant to audio data transferred via AES/EBU... but may not apply to audio data transferred via Ethernet protocols.


Just to make explicitly clear, I have not tried exotic Ethernet cables of any brand or description between my router and computer or from my computer to my 808/861, though I am interested to hear from those who have. Nor have I experimented with an exotic USB cable from my computers to my 808/861 (two completely separate systems).

Top
#238133 - 2015-07-27 08:39 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By Ronnie
Hi Asa
My post above wasn't written so much towards yourself as it was to others reading this thread, who may not understand the distinction between Speakerlink and 'true' Ethernet use

I can understand the manufacturers labelling these cables as "Ethernet", as that is mainly what they will be used as......does anyone know of any other Manufacturer who uses Ethernet cables to carry a Balanced AED signal??........even as an interconnect between rack components??........or even if there are other Speakers out there that accept Ethernet / Speakerlink connections??

I wonder about Meridian's Speakerlink connections being "different".......they market their two cables as Cat 5 and Cat 7.......so changing the Connections would compromise this claim??

So am I correct in saying that if I ask Chord for an Anthem cable.......and tell them that it's for a Speakerlink application......that they will give me a different one, compared to if I asked for an Anthem cable for Ethernet duty??

If so, do you have any idea how the connections differ??


Hi Ronnie

I was writing my further clarification as you were posting your further thoughts. As you can see you have anticipated some of the points I make.

As for other companies, I do not know how Linn and Dynaudio connect up their "digital" speakers.

Top
#238134 - 2015-07-27 08:48 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
I think it's unlikely the pinouts on Meridian's Speakerlink cable are different to standard cat 5/6+ (as far as my knowledge goes neither is cat7 as this requires very different connectors?). This is based on experience when I used the flat cat5 SL cable between my switch/MC200/818 after I sold my 5200SLs. It worked perfectly.

I should add that I've heard significant differences between analogue cables over the years, very small differences between SPDIF, and Speakerlink (when feeding DSP from endpoint), but none at all in Ethernet (network) configuration. E.g., used as pure network cable I can't hear a difference between £200+ of Meridian SL cable and the (well constructed, good quality) Cat 6+ wires I now use in its place for this application (the SL wires are much too long and look messy, so they're in the cupboard!).


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#238161 - 2015-07-27 19:03 Re: Ethernet cables [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Originally Posted By Asa Post
Originally Posted By Ian
Following on from Ronnies post linking the the cable teardown, Im looking forward to the results from this. Maybe for the first time I will read something scientifically verifiable to prove that AQ/data could be affected by (other than poorly designed, badly constructed, out of specification, maliciously treated, poorly deployed or simply faulty) network data cables, something that the last 30+ years experience in computer networking have failed to reveal. Or maybe not...

I've heard some huge differences in AQ and the only thing that has changed between the listening experiences was time of day, posture or wellbeing, oh, and the odd glass of alcohol.
I note your scepticism. But please note that my post concerned cables used as SpeakerLink. And I did not find any benefits from using Audioquest Vodka. And, unlike you, I certainly did not resort to vodka or any other alcohol. So, why not borrow some cables and decide for yourself rather than merely read other people's findings?
My post was not directed at you - there are many posts here otherwise. Note my references to network data cables and computer networking. Not a single reference to SpeakerLink in my post, which I have always said can sound different as there are scientific reasons why they can. as for only reading other peoples findings, I have had enough listening experiences to know what sounds different and what does not without needing someone to tell me that it sounds better because of its price or special construction. My ears may not be the best in the world, but I can sure tell the difference between listening to music at 5am and 5pm. Whilst that revelation didn't cost a penny, the realisation was priceless.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#238171 - 2015-07-28 07:37 Re: Ethernet cables [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Thanks for the clarification and happy listening at whatever hour!

Top
#238173 - 2015-07-28 08:08 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 333
EllisDJ Offline
Hitchhiker
EllisDJ Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-03-28
Posts: 333
Loc: Romford, UK
Not read through all the pages but I am involved in a discussion elsewhere. I thought I would share a few things from that

1. Ethernet Cable Testing - AQ Vodka

2.AQ Vodka Stripped Down

Its not very dissimilar from a standard Cat 7 cable.

The results are being collated atm


861v4 LPSU, HD621, Bryston 9BSST
KEF Reference 3 and 2c, 2 X SVS SB13 ULTRA
Audio PC: JPLay, LPSU, JCAT, PPA Studio
Cables XLO Limited, Unlimited Edition and Signature
Sony VW500 Isotek Titan, DIY Mains and Clean Signal Earth Solution
Top
#238176 - 2015-07-28 08:39 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: EllisDJ]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Although, as I said, I personally can't hear any difference between Ethernet cables carrying data (as opposed to SL) I question whether this kind of A/B/X blind listening test is really as 'scientific' as it appears. I have pointed out on this forum before that no less an authority than Bob Stuart himself believes they are flawed for various reasons. Given how well versed he is in audio engineering and psycho-acoustics, his is not an opinion I would dismiss lightly.

Also, it occurs that IF the differences people may be hearing in this context are real, it might well be due to interference/noise suppression differentials between the cables, which would potentially be highly system/environment dependent. E.g., we know that Meridian increased noise rejection (forgive me, I can't recall of which type right now - EM?) in ID40 to ID41, with the little ferrules in the cables (important point) of the Anniversary system in between those two design iterations. From this I surmise that a) they found that better shielding or noise suppression of some kind, in the cables before ID41, was of benefit, or why bother (unless Meridian do things randomly in R&D which I don't believe), b) would the addition of correctly designed ferrules make as much as/more of a difference in this application than an apparently minor tweak in cable design, or use of exotic materials with associated price tag, c) better equipment design to suppress/reject noise at the source/receiver might mitigate this, including cleaner PSUs on switches, etc.,, d) the environment in which the system is played might have more or less interference present (RFI, etc.). It would be interesting to know if the test attempts to take into account points c and d, as well as the psycho-acoustic problems Bob Stuart raises. If it does not, I would question whether the test is itself good, or pseudo, science.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#238196 - 2015-07-29 08:10 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By Asa Post
Originally Posted By Ronnie
Hi Asa
My post above wasn't written so much towards yourself as it was to others reading this thread, who may not understand the distinction between Speakerlink and 'true' Ethernet use

I can understand the manufacturers labelling these cables as "Ethernet", as that is mainly what they will be used as......does anyone know of any other Manufacturer who uses Ethernet cables to carry a Balanced AED signal??........even as an interconnect between rack components??........or even if there are other Speakers out there that accept Ethernet / Speakerlink connections??

I wonder about Meridian's Speakerlink connections being "different".......they market their two cables as Cat 5 and Cat 7.......so changing the Connections would compromise this claim??

So am I correct in saying that if I ask Chord for an Anthem cable.......and tell them that it's for a Speakerlink application......that they will give me a different one, compared to if I asked for an Anthem cable for Ethernet duty??

If so, do you have any idea how the connections differ??


Hi Ronnie

I was writing my further clarification as you were posting your further thoughts. As you can see you have anticipated some of the points I make.

As for other companies, I do not know how Linn and Dynaudio connect up their "digital" speakers.


Just on a very superficial and quick search, Dynaudio use only RCA connections.

Linn on the other hand use RJ45 and seem to specify SSTP. Otherwise they claim that no digital cables, power cords or switches make any difference to sound quality. This is being debated over on the Linn forum but little attention has been paid to exotic cables.

Top
#238201 - 2015-07-29 11:51 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Thanks "Asa Post" for the sharing of your experience with the Chord Anthem, AQ Vodka and SpeakerLink. It's honest experiences at home that is the most interesting.

I don't expect any epiphanies coming from another Randi round and he certainly won't test RJ45 cables in a SpeakerLink or MMHR context. wink



Future ID80 with video owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> HD621 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
Top
#238202 - 2015-07-29 12:38 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
+1


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#238203 - 2015-07-29 13:00 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,098
Hector Offline
Knows where his towel is
Hector Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2011-02-02
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Midlands, UK
Meridian Oxford posted previously on this subject and IIRC they were to enter the lion's den and arrange a demo / comparison of Chord Ethernet cable products.

Did this happen or were second thoughts predominant.

As far as I can ascertain the thread appeared and then came to nought.

Could be wrong though! confused

Hector


AV: Thorens TD160B, SME, ShureV15MK2, 500, 598, 861v4, DSP7200.1LR, DSP3300HC Samsung UE55, SkyHD.
DINING: MS600, AC200, DSP5200SLLR.
STUDY 504, SB Touch, 2x MD600, C15, 808.6, 5200SE, Mac & PC, Explorer v1, Prime+PS Grado GS1000i
HORIZONTAL: M80, MS200, Red Rose Spirit + Sonus Faber Toys
A capella to Zydeco
Top
#238212 - 2015-07-29 16:40 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 392
Akimo Offline
Hitchhiker
Akimo Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 392
Loc: San Jose, California, USA
Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Although, as I said, I personally can't hear any difference between Ethernet cables carrying data (as opposed to SL) I question whether this kind of A/B/X blind listening test is really as 'scientific' as it appears. I have pointed out on this forum before that no less an authority than Bob Stuart himself believes they are flawed for various reasons. Given how well versed he is in audio engineering and psycho-acoustics, his is not an opinion I would dismiss lightly.


In addition to Bob Stuart, Nelson Pass also believes that A/B testing for audio is fundamentally flawed and ignores key general cognitive and psychoacoustic learnings.

For my own purposes, I find that I get auditory fatigue so quickly that trying to use that approach gets me nowhere.


Living room: 818v3, Audio Research VS 110, Maggie 1.6, REL sub
A/V room: 861v8, DSP7200SE L/R/C, 4x DSP320 surrounds, ID41 + Roon, Prime+PS
Top
#238225 - 2015-07-30 07:17 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Originally Posted By Crion
I don't expect any epiphanies coming from another Randi round and he certainly won't test RJ45 cables in a SpeakerLink or MMHR context. wink


All it will take is just ONE scientifically verifiably study from a reputable source showing that properly specced, designed, built and installed in a well designed audio setup network DATA cable when used as a NETWORK DATA cable carrying audio NETWORK DATA in has an impact on audio quality then I will listen. I'm not saying that you cannot change how a network data cable performs as I have abused cables in the past and caused all kinds of havoc (like running a chair over a piece of thinwire ethernet and stalling the whole network), but these do not count as they do not meet the criteria above of spec, design, build and installation, hence in this example, its a minor installation change to fix rather than an upgrade to an expensive cable.

Just ONE PIECE. Not too much to ask?

Until then, I won't listen as I know from personal experience how fallible my own hearing is even when listening to exactly the same source/environment.

As for audio data, say via MHR or PCM, I accept that and have heard it myself although never heard a difference since using kit after my 568 so sold all my high quality cables that I was using for digital audio and replaced it with well built off shelf cables. But even though I have never heard a difference, i have been given a scientific explanation why some cables might sound different and happy to accept that there can be differences between some cables but also believe that a its the design and build quality that differentiates these cables and this does not need to cost the earth nor rely on marketing mumbo jumbo to justify.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#238227 - 2015-07-30 08:12 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 587
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 587
Loc: Cologne, DE & Cheltenham, UK.
Ian,
Hear-hear, oh, er, I mean +1 ! wink

Always interesting - whether it's data or an audio signal - nobody ever pops an oscilloscope on either end of these cables, or a network (packet) analyser & shares the results.
This would demonstrate / be the definitive proof that the cables change or have an influence on the signals.

And would end the discussion for once and for all.


Meridian : 861v8 + ID41 + HD621 + 218, 2*SE-update DSP8.2K's, SE-update DSP7200HC. Roon.
TAG McLaren : DVD32R-PSM192, T32R+DAB, 100x5R:10. B&W : 4*SCMS. Logitech : Squeezebox Touches & Duets.
Sim2 HT380 DLP, Panasonic TX-P60ZT60E, SKY HD+, SlingBox HD Pro, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Oppo BDP-103EU.
Top
#238229 - 2015-07-30 08:55 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Akimo]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By Akimo
Originally Posted By 3dit0r
Although, as I said, I personally can't hear any difference between Ethernet cables carrying data (as opposed to SL) I question whether this kind of A/B/X blind listening test is really as 'scientific' as it appears. I have pointed out on this forum before that no less an authority than Bob Stuart himself believes they are flawed for various reasons. Given how well versed he is in audio engineering and psycho-acoustics, his is not an opinion I would dismiss lightly.
In addition to Bob Stuart, Nelson Pass also believes that A/B testing for audio is fundamentally flawed and ignores key general cognitive and psychoacoustic learnings.

For my own purposes, I find that I get auditory fatigue so quickly that trying to use that approach gets me nowhere.
For my comparison of cables I adopted the following procedures:

1. play some music. This allows the system to warm up and everyone to get used to the sound.

2. play only short extracts of music between switching cables so as to concentrate on certain key elements.

3. play longer pieces, usually whole tracks, so as to be able to relax into the music.

4. switch backwards and forwards between cables.

Please note that I am not expecting anyone to buy cables on the strength of what I have written. Nor am I making particular claims for my methods. I did what was practical and what I wanted to do. I made two suggestions:

1. if your system allows, try home run rather than daisy chain if you are not already doing so.

2. borrow some demonstration Audioquest and Chord cables and decide for yourself in your own system whether you prefer them to cat7 or cat6 SSTP spec.

Top
#238230 - 2015-07-30 08:56 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Rolski]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By Rolski
And would end the discussion for once and for all.
We are not curing cancer here, just sharing enthusiasm.

Top
#243508 - 2015-12-03 20:38 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Yetis]
Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 430
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 430
Loc: Land van Maas en Waal, Netherl...
I have 10 meter length SpeakerLink cables, the distance between my DSP7200.2's is 2.4 meter, homerun from center positioned 818.2 it means a lot of unused SL length. Guess what, it lies coiled up under my cabinet.

Whilst I am making a new home network I bought some 100%copper, 26 AWG, Cat6a SSTP PiMF patch cables, thinking it may deteriorate the SQ a bit but at least clean up the cable clutter it is maybe the worthwhile to test the effect.

Ok, simple. It is a bad idea to use SpeakerLink coiled up due to much length. I can say that the difference with non coiled up, proper length Cat6a patch cable is "dramatic". Ok, well that is too much audiphile speak, but I do experience a more holographic music stage. The Black (!) tombstones vanish, eerie.

My next step is that I will now buy the correct length that I need and leave the SL as spare part collecting dust. Or I buy some Telegartner RJ45 connectors and patch them on my left over Cat7 home network orange colored cable. (I will call them Jenever, the better Dutch version of Vodka.)

Cheers!


System 1: MC200, 818v3, DSP7200SE
System 2: DSP5000.1, Monarchy DIP24/96, Squeezebox Duet.
Office: MS200, STAX SRM-323II, SR303
Top
#244658 - 2016-01-02 19:54 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: JaapJan]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
I was just cleaning up a few old reading lists and checked to see if the conclusion to the previous ArsTechnica was ever posted. Well, it was and for completeness, it is here..


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
Top
#244686 - 2016-01-03 15:31 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
No eyebrows raised to the 'conclusion'. Chinese/noname Cat6a failed the Fluke test meter - no surprise there.

Viewing the layout of their 'test setup' in Vegas I'm not surprised they heard no difference. Ethernet cabling was clearly not the weakest link. wink


Future ID80 with video owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> HD621 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
Top
#268460 - 2017-10-09 12:25 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Reviving an old thread, but has anyone directly compared the 'new' round Meridian SpeakerLink cable to the 'old' flat one on the endpoint-DSP runs?

The current flat Meridian cables I have are fine, but much too long so I have a lot of untidy wire everywhere. Unfortunately, some bright spark at Meridian omitted probably the most common length of speaker wire sold (around 2.5m) from the inventory for the flat wire (which jumps from 1m to 5m). Well, I've rarely, if ever, seen speakers only 2m apart, and the average British home doesn't have 10m walls on the narrow end, so I'm not sure what the thinking was there, or if there was any.

Until they see fit to offer pre-terminated flat SpeakerLink somewhere between those extremes, I'll have to use something else, so any auditioning findings would be welcome!


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#268461 - 2017-10-09 12:28 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Originally Posted By Crion
No eyebrows raised to the 'conclusion'. Chinese/noname Cat6a failed the Fluke test meter - no surprise there.

Viewing the layout of their 'test setup' in Vegas I'm not surprised they heard no difference. Ethernet cabling was clearly not the weakest link. wink
Agreed. You do need a certain level of equipment and environment to be able to hear differences in cables.

However, were the cables on test on speaker runs, or carrying audio information, or just network information? I'm more dubious about the latter making a difference, although I admit I haven't done any listening tests myself for that application and wouldn't completely dismiss it out of hand.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#268467 - 2017-10-09 15:02 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: JaapJan]
Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,284
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question
GMT Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2004-10-20
Posts: 1,284
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, UK
Originally Posted By JaapJan
Ok, simple. It is a bad idea to use SpeakerLink coiled up due to much length. I can say that the difference with non coiled up, proper length Cat6a patch cable is "dramatic". Ok, well that is too much audiphile speak, but I do experience a more holographic music stage. The Black (!) tombstones vanish, eerie.

My next step is that I will now buy the correct length that I need and leave the SL as spare part collecting dust. Or I buy some Telegartner RJ45 connectors and patch them on my left over Cat7 home network orange colored cable. (I will call them Jenever, the better Dutch version of Vodka.)

Cheers!
An interesting test before swapping the cables would have been to pull the SL cables out so that they were uncoiled to see if there was any sonic improvement. (Do you still have the SL cables?)

Cheers
Tom


Main: G68J, 218 HD621, 3*5200s (2 SE L&R),DSW, 2* Reviver, 3200s,SBT, PS4, Amazon TV Fire, Dune Base 3.0, Xbox, NUC (Roon server & Kodi)
Kitchen: 561M, M33s, M1500, SBT, Chromecast
Office: A330i, G41, Explorer2,Velodyne CT120
F80s, M60s
Top
#268468 - 2017-10-09 16:07 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: GMT]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
I’m still using them, yes. Interesting, will try uncoiling!

Of course if I do hear an improvement by uncoiling, I’ll be even more annoyed Meridian don’t make a sensible 2.5m-ish length for home run use!


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
#268474 - 2017-10-09 18:32 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,479
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,479
Loc: Central England, UK
Hi James,

You should have a chat to Rick, he should be able to divide a 5 meter length and convert it into two shorter terminated SpeakerLink cables, see this 2011 topic IC: Custom Length SpeakerLink Cables.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
Top
#268475 - 2017-10-09 18:50 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Carl]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Brilliant! Thanks Carl, will give him a call.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
Top
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >

Moderator:  Carl, Duncs, ncpl 
Who's Online
5 registered (Zanderbarfly, MI', CMB Integrations - Bruce, PBO46, ChrisLayerUK), 43 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Filipe, Barry_G, 964RS, miguelito, Grandluc
4550 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
spinaltap 50
CMB Integrations - Bruce 42
Ratbert 37
ChrisLayerUK 28
ncpl 26
Top Posters
VirusKiller 12164
Fiddler 8632
ncpl 8298
Carl 7479
Ian 7271
Forum Stats
4,550 Registered Members
17 Forums
24,116 Topics
248,238 Posts

Most users ever online: 211 @ 2015-05-05 14:40
Meridian  |  Media Centre  |  Support  |  Firmware Release Notes  |  RSS Systems  |  RSS Streaming  |  RSS Restaurant