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#238090 - 2015-07-26 09:14 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
What I am about to write will provoke cable sceptics and disappoint those who have invested in Vodkas. However, that is not my intention.

My curiosity was aroused by the references to Audioquest Vodka and Diamond cables improving sound quality. As you can see, my post above reported that I found it hard to understand how this could be the case. But a PM from another HH further stimulated my interest. And at about the same time a friend with a Naim system installed new SL cables that transformed the quality of his sound. [I know that digital and analogue systems and digital and analogue cables are not the same.]

I borrowed two runs of Vodka from my dealer and installed them in daisy-chain configuration (necessitated by the length of the cables)for comparison with my home-run configured cat7. My 2 channel system comprises an 808v5 and 8kSEs. I could detect no difference in sound quality. My dealer called in later and also struggled to find any improvement with the Vodkas.

At my request my dealer had also arranged to borrow some Chord Anthem cables which he had brought with him. With no sense of anticipation these were swapped into the system. Surprisingly, these delivered a very worthwhile improvement in sound quality. Scale, clarity and focus were all improved.

Accordingly, I asked to borrow other cables in Chord's range to see if further benefits could be gained. I ended up with the full range of Signature, Indigo and Sarum to add to the Anthems. I have had all these cables on extended loan for nearly three weeks. The cheapest Anthems offered the most dramatic improvement when compared with the cat7. There was a small incremental gain from the Anthem to the Signature and from the Signature to the Indigo. The difference between the Indigo and the Sarum was also subtle. Sarum is approximately seven times more expensive than Anthem making Anthem something of a bargain. Apart from my family, my findings were also endorsed by two other experienced hi-fi enthusiasts who are used to evaluating equipment. I was under no pressure to buy any of these cables

Cable discussions seem to elicit emotional responses from people that do not apply to other areas of hi-fi. This has made many wary of taking cables as seriously as other parts of their system. Some very distinguished members did not change over to SSTP spec cat cables until less than a year ago. Other very distinguished people put their faith in Meridian and bought branded cable "for peace of mind". However, I urge you to borrow some Chord Anthem cables from your dealer. You may be as surprised as I was at the improvement that they bring. You have nothing to lose but a few hours of your time. Can I explain why these cables should bring such a desirable improvement in sound quality? No.

I now have a longer length of Anthem and have been able to enjoy the advantage of a home run connection. This offered even more scale, clarity and focus. So, at the very least, if your equipment allows, try a home run configuration if you do not already have that installed.

I must express my thanks to Audioquest and Chord for allowing me the luxury of such an extended home trial. And thanks also to Sevenoaks Exeter for making all the arrangements.

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#238093 - 2015-07-26 09:42 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 430
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android
JaapJan Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2012-12-04
Posts: 430
Loc: Land van Maas en Waal, Netherl...
Nice post. It is not clear to me if you have tried and compared Meridian SpeakerLink as well prior to this test?

Cheers!


System 1: MC200, 818v3, DSP7200SE
System 2: DSP5000.1, Monarchy DIP24/96, Squeezebox Duet.
Office: MS200, STAX SRM-323II, SR303
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#238095 - 2015-07-26 10:02 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
What you hear is what you hear; thanks for posting. I am, however, curious to know whether or not the different cables were laid in exactly the same position for the tests. I ask this as interference and cross-talk are very real phenomena.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#238101 - 2015-07-26 11:22 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
And the difference in better designed cables may be that they offer a higher degree of immunity to interference/crosstalk...


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#238103 - 2015-07-26 12:28 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic
VirusKiller Offline
Don't Panic

Registered: 2004-04-15
Posts: 12,164
Loc: nr. Milton Keynes, UK
Absolutely.


Roon Developer and ex-moderator of this Forum
I am #25 in the HH1 photo of fame.
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#238104 - 2015-07-26 13:41 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: JaapJan]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By JaapJan
Nice post. It is not clear to me if you have tried and compared Meridian SpeakerLink as well prior to this test?
I have heard SpeakerLink in other systems but not my own. Acknowledging the danger of relying on carrying sounds in one's head, even of familiar material, and that different systems and rooms sound different, I would suggest that Chord Anthem shows a distinct improvement. But such a statement must be tentative and conditional!

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#238105 - 2015-07-26 13:43 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: VirusKiller]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By VirusKiller
What you hear is what you hear; thanks for posting. I am, however, curious to know whether or not the different cables were laid in exactly the same position for the tests. I ask this as interference and cross-talk are very real phenomena.
All cables were routed very carefully, particularly with regard to power cables, and in exactly the same position.
The only exception is the longer cable that permitted a home run configuration. But this was also very carefully placed.

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#238107 - 2015-07-26 14:48 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
Thanks for posting those very interesting observations Asa

However, I do wonder if this thread of "Ethernet Cables" is the best thread to post your observations??

Pedantic I know, but still importantly IMHO... you used all the cables mentioned as AES/EBU Digital cables to connect your 808 to your D8kSE's.

And as you know, in that application, none of Ethernet's inherent advantages of Check-Sums; Error Correction and Data Retransmission would then be used in the "Speakerlink" connection from 808v5 to DSP's.

It doesn't change the validity of your findings in any way... but it is worth stating again that while your findings are certainly relevant to audio data transferred via AES/EBU... but may not apply to audio data transferred via Ethernet protocols.


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#238108 - 2015-07-26 14:56 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
The pictures of the Audioquest Vodka teardown / stripdown at the link below might give people a better understanding of what they might getting for their money........masking tape included!!!

Audioquest Vodka cable Teardown



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#238112 - 2015-07-26 18:42 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,479
Carl Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Carl Offline


President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 7,479
Loc: Central England, UK
Originally Posted By Ronnie
... I do wonder if this thread of "Ethernet Cables" is the best thread to post your observations??
I can understand why as this topic is a bit of a muddle with existing discussions on both Eithernet network and SpeakerLink use cases. I'll have a look at splitting it out into two topics with appropriate titles.

In the meantime I've changed the topic title to accommodate both.

Regards,
Carl


861v6+ID40, HD621, 8000.2, 7200HC, 7200, SKYQ Silver, PS3, PDP-LX6090, QNAP TS870-Pro (8*6TB), Roon, iPadAir2.
[In Reserve] C15, MD600 (2*3TB), TwinStore RM (2*2TB)
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#238113 - 2015-07-26 18:53 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
Loc: Bristol, UK
Thanks for an informative post and great to see someone else willing to invest time and effort to experience the reality of using audiophile RJ45 cables in a high-end system. No issue at all with hearing that Vodkas don’t cut it in your system (I only cried for an hour) – I’ll try to get my hands on some Chord Anthem when I have the chance. After getting surprisingly good results at a friend’s house yesterday and repeating the findings in my own system today, I’m now looking to upgrade the link between my Ethernet switch and MD600.

I’m sure there are many on this forum who are open minded on the impact of RJ45 cables, but it’s still startling to see how aggressive some people get in the face of real-world experience reported by forum members who are clearly highly coherent and own well-sorted high-end systems.

I’ve always felt that an essential prerequisite for real science, discovery and progress, is humility. Whatever one’s real or perceived level of knowledge in a given arena of science, the absence of humility, curiosity and of any urge to experiment and discover new things, infallibly creates an ‘anti-science’ environment, in which preconception and complacency dominate, and progress withers away.

I trained as a scientist and engineer. In my late teens and early twenties, with that early gift of naiveté in the excitement of learning, I dared to think that I knew a quite a lot about quite a lot of things. Now, as every day passes and I experience more of reality, I become increasingly aware of how much I don’t know. I like this: it means there’s a lot to experience that’s new and great things to discover and share with other people who love music. If I discover something that makes music sound better, I feel an urge to share it with other music lovers. If I discover something that does the opposite, I’m keen to share that experience to save others making the same mistake.

So I’m grateful that high end audio manufactures largely remain curious, hungry and keen to move forward. Without doubt, one of the fabulous outcomes of that mind-set is the wonderful Meridian experience that so many of us enjoy today. I remember the times when some stated vociferously that ‘all CD players sound the alike, because they’re digital’. That small victory of curiosity over complacency has brought us wonderful music and will certainly bring us much more in the future.

So here’s to humility and curiosity; here’s to willingness to allow one’s ‘theory of how things are’ to be modified a little by real-world experience, and here’s to the urge to hear music that’s more involving.

Cheers & happy listening,
Dave


808v5, MD600 & DSP7200.1
Dedicated audio mains supply
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#238114 - 2015-07-26 18:59 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 587
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android
Rolski Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2010-08-24
Posts: 587
Loc: Cologne, DE & Cheltenham, UK.
It's good to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out. smirk


Meridian : 861v8 + ID41 + HD621 + 218, 2*SE-update DSP8.2K's, SE-update DSP7200HC. Roon.
TAG McLaren : DVD32R-PSM192, T32R+DAB, 100x5R:10. B&W : 4*SCMS. Logitech : Squeezebox Touches & Duets.
Sim2 HT380 DLP, Panasonic TX-P60ZT60E, SKY HD+, SlingBox HD Pro, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Oppo BDP-103EU.
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