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#236075 - 2015-06-03 19:06 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Ian - is AES/EBU considered more robust over distance than SPDIF, much as analogue balanced runs are over single ended?


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#236110 - 2015-06-04 08:12 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
I think there may be confusion between AES and SPDIF formats at different levels. AES defines a number of standards which use different cable construction. So you can have over balanced or unbalanced connections. It also defines max and min voltages and is very tolerant to this. So an AES cable over balanced cable terminated by XLR, often referred to as AES/EBU is going to be pretty tolerant of the long distances and abuse that it is designed to handle.

I don't know what voltage SpeakerLink uses but it too runs over a balanced connection. I would imagine that it is equally robust for the application that it was defined for, which is going to be over much shorter distances.

Which leaves the question of why cable differences have an affect.

I am ex broadcast and events industry, studio and OB, analogue and digital. I've seen the sort of abuse that these cables are put through by engineers and the environment. I'm not saying that no one cares as they do, but quality is not driven by the price tag of the cable, but by sound engineering principles such as proven design and construction.

A few years back I was doing a lot of OB work including connecting up our kit (Chyron, Viz etc.) over HD-SDI. We were running to a big screen over about 1/3 mile of cabling and multiple bits of kit in the scanner/truck. I asked the OB guys what cable it was - bog standard Belden hand terminated on the floor in front of me.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#236111 - 2015-06-04 08:38 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Interesting, thanks for that! I used to work in post production, before becoming a writer, by the way.

I have found that Belden 1694A is a very nice sounding SPDIF cable when correctly terminated with Canare crimp plugs, it's what I use on my DSP runs now.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#236126 - 2015-06-04 15:35 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 151
Frode Offline
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Frode Offline
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Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 151
Loc: Oslo, Norway
How can it be SQ difference in a digital balanced audio stream? I belive(d) that was impossible. Are there any professional studies supporting such differences?

I guess I have gone the opposite direction, switching to super cheap cables.

/Frode


G65, HD621, DSP7200SE, DSP5200HCSE, DSP5200SE, MC200, Roon on Qnap, Velodyne DD12+.
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#236137 - 2015-06-04 18:33 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Frode]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Probably poor design, poor build, inappropriate specification, poor audio memory, a case of the emperors new clothes, EMI and a bit of black magic.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#236154 - 2015-06-05 08:58 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
.. in other words, complete BS. wink

Or you can try an AQ Vodka and a Giso GB and make up your own mind. But I would emphasize that it should come after correct speaker placement and the usual hardware upgrade considerations where the upgrade money have the most documented effect on this forum.


Future ID80 with video owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> HD621 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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#236156 - 2015-06-05 09:41 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
+1

In the end my ears are always the final arbiter where hi-fi is concerned.


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#236164 - 2015-06-05 11:58 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Originally Posted By Crion
.. in other words, complete BS. wink


Not at all, only a case of the emperors new clothes and a bit of black magic fall into the realms of BS. The others have a scientifically explanation.

I'm of the view that the human body is fallible and that certain functions, such as hearing can change over time or be influenced by the brain and as such, cannot be trusted to give a comparable set of results.

However, give me a set of tests where the results are undertaken in a scientifically verifiable and irrefutable way and my views will be different. Unfortunately, much of the hifi world is devoid of this.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#236167 - 2015-06-05 13:44 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2004-04-05
Posts: 233
JCD Offline
Hitchhiker
JCD Offline
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Registered: 2004-04-05
Posts: 233
Loc: West London, UK
Given the comments re AES/EBU being the standard, has anyone considered / used a specialist digital cable such as this Canford DST in combination with a standard twisted pair cable for Meridian Comms signalling?

That is use standard Cat5e/6/7 cable for the signalling and the specialist screened cable for the +ve and -ve AES/EBU and signal earth. Clearly this would require custom termination at the RJ45.

Just a thought, albeit, not as convenient as using a standard Cat7 alone.

Thoughts given that the specialist cable would seem to be very well screened and modest in price?

John


808v6, M60, MC200, HD621, Lumagen XE, 504, SB Touch, 563, 201, 204, 208, MPMAX 221, M80, Explorer, Explorer2.
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#236954 - 2015-06-20 08:28 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is
Asa Post Offline
Knows where his towel is

Registered: 2008-02-29
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Devon, UK
Originally Posted By DaveyC
Agreed, intuition suggests reduced benefits or no benefits running audiophile Ethernet cables on a network link running TCPIP.
Hello DaveyC.

I found your GISO thread last year sparked one of the most interesting discussions on this forum. However, I am at a loss to understand how Audioquest Vodka can improve sound quality compared with Cat7 by giving a greater rejection of RFI. If the latter is built to spec then its screening and shielding should be more than enough to reject RFI. I understand the role of the GISO in rejecting RFI already in the system.

I also asked Meridian if there was any sound quality difference between their flat SpeakerLink cable and their round profile Cat7 used primarily by installers. I was told that both sounded identical over shortish runs.

Could you have been previously using an inferior Cat7 that did not conform to specification?

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#237478 - 2015-07-06 18:55 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Asa Post]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer

Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Well Gents (No Ladies here?)

I did it, I performed the ultimate Dirty Deed..



I put these Audioquest Diamond RJ/E on my 3 front speakers as SpeakerLink Cables.

I had well constructed cat6a cables in place before.

I could hear the the sound of a flushing toilet as I unpacked the cables from their cheap but halfclassy velour bags without a logo.

I went to the Hot Studio (Damn it's hot, steamy and sweaty) Yoga class for 60 minutes before any critical listening...

The result, as I put myself on the sofa and pressed the Swim All albums button, I went to sleep...

Woke up a few hours later, this sounds really nice! shocked

I had a Sooloos Swim streak of some really good albums, but I must confess that the system does actually sound better. I was prepared to make the most expensive mistake so far in HiFi but it seems many who have tried these expensive ethernet cables can't deny that there is something happening that is beneficial to the sound.

Well that's my report for AQ Diamonds as front SpeakerLink Cables in a Meridian system.


Future ID80 with video owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> HD621 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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#237488 - 2015-07-07 06:57 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2011-01-06
Posts: 497
Martins HiFi Offline
Meridian Partner Paranoid android
Martins HiFi Offline
Meridian Partner
Paranoid android

Registered: 2011-01-06
Posts: 497
Loc: Norwich, UK
Nice cables!!

smile

One we should try...!

I have played with The Chord Company Anthem, Signature & Sarum...

If you're open minded, try it!

Ian.


Martins HiFi Meridian Partner for East Anglia 01603 627010
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