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#217027 - 2014-07-18 06:43 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Not'arf]
Registered: 2012-04-10
Posts: 85
Matsaly Offline
Hitchhiker
Matsaly Offline
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Registered: 2012-04-10
Posts: 85
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
I'm with Mwielbelhaus 100%. It's a hobby for enjoyment.
I'm glad to read the experiences of fellow enthusiasts regardless of where one stands on the thorny question of cabling. The bottom line for me is whether the device/accessory/tweak gives me more musical enjoyment.


MC200, Aqua La Scala DAC, Conrad Johnson CT5 pre/LP70S amp, Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation speakers.
Shunyata Hydra power conditioner, Asst. Shunyata, Nordost, & Siltech cables.
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#217189 - 2014-07-20 18:56 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Matsaly]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
I don't find it hard to believe that you'd find a difference when the cable is used from the SL outputs carrying SPDIF over AES/EBU. Carrying network packets between the core and endpoint, though, I'd guess the previous cable may have been defective, or lacking in basic spec in some way?

E.g., I was getting constant dropouts using what I believed to be an OK Cat 5e cable when I first got Sooloos, and switched to some individually made/fluke tested cat 6a (using Cat 7 cable - once you put Cat 6 termination on them, you can't really call them Cat 7, can you?). I haven't had any dropouts since, but didn't particularly notice a sound quality upgrade even then.

To put my comments in perspective, I've owned very expensive cables in the past for analogue interconnects, speaker cable, and still run specialist power cables where I feel I could/can hear the difference, I just haven't noticed any difference in network transmission above and beyond a well specified and properly constructed cable, although if you can, that's the thing that matters!

Note, however, to qualify the above, that general standards of spec/manufacture are possibly poor. If you can, the best way is to buy a cable which has been individually tested. Blue Jeans cable offer this in the US, and so do Universal Networks where I bought mine in the UK. I can vouch for the quality of the latter, I now use them as patch cables for networking, not just hi-fi, and they come in lovely colours too wink


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#217195 - 2014-07-20 23:25 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2001-01-04
Posts: 247
MagnusB Offline
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MagnusB Offline
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Registered: 2001-01-04
Posts: 247
Loc: California, USA
Dropouts would be caused by a defective cable, if it was really bad and caused so much retransmission the packets missed the window. Such a bad cable would be easily verifiable.


MC200, G61R, Non-SL DSP5200 and DSP5200C, DSP5000 rears
Explorer 2 for the PC (Audioengine 2+) and Headphones (HE-560)

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#217198 - 2014-07-21 00:43 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: MagnusB]
Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,070
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
ChrisLayerUK Online content
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-12-09
Posts: 6,070
Loc: Colchester, Essex, UK
I have a simple gadget for testing cat 5 cables for continuity.
Works a treat Chris smile

P.s. Those who know me will know where I bought it lol


No 18 in the Hall of fame smile I have simple tastes; I am content to settle for the best: GIK monster bass panels, rear wall.
MC200 500GB, QNAP TVS 471i3. Roon into 2 MS200's. Explorer 2. Bluesound Pulse 2 and Mini. 596 v1.89.2, 518, G61R, M60.2 Rosewood, M33C, M33 Rears, M1500 Sub, Foxsat HD, Sony Blu Ray, Pioneer 5090, 2 Chromecast's for LRB videos.
Edited by ChrisLayerUK; 2014-07-21 00:52. Edit Reason: P.s added
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#217476 - 2014-07-24 09:31 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: ChrisLayerUK]
Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Crion Offline
Senior Shouting Officer
Crion Offline
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Registered: 2004-01-12
Posts: 2,262
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I also found the AQ Vodka/Diamond improved upon my cat5e UTP cables for store-core(MC200)/source(ID41) deployment in Sooloos environment. It already made an improvement for MMHR-HD621 cable and as an SL cable.



Future ID80 with video owner!
DSP8000SE, DSP7200SEHC, DSP5200SE sides, DSP7200SE rears, 861v8/ID41, MC200, Sim2 HT380 T2 1080P, Stewart Cinecurve 2.35:1, XEIT CM-5E Anamorphic lens, HDI Dune BD Prime 3.0 with Wireworld Platinum HDMI -> HD621 -> Audioquest Diamond RJ45. Shunyata Sigma Digital@861v8.
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#217608 - 2014-07-25 18:25 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Crion]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Interesting, might have to try one at some point...


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#217613 - 2014-07-25 18:45 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Might be cheaper to buy a non UTP cable.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#235852 - 2015-05-29 23:12 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
DaveyC Offline
Hitchhiker
DaveyC Offline
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Registered: 2011-04-27
Posts: 90
Loc: Bristol, UK
It's been a while since I posted here, but seeing the brave comments from Mwiebelhaus and Crion, based on their experience, I thought I'd share my own experience with Ethernet cables.

I've been using CAT 7 cables on the SpeakerLink runs between 808v5 and 7200s for a couple of years, but the right-hand cable went faulty a few weeks ago. I was thinking about buying some of Meridian's own CAT 7 cable, but thought I'd look (or rather listen to) other options at the same time. I've experimented with different grades of Ethernet cables on my SpeakerLink runs in the past. While the improvements weren't jaw-dropping, there were audible improvements between CAT 5 and CAT 6, and the CAT 7 brought readily discernible gains in openness and coherence.

So I tried some high quality CAT 7 cable, not an audiophile cable, just a high quality one (same type as I use on the 20m run from my MD600 to 808v5). As a bit of a punt, I asked my dealer if they could get me a demo set of AQ Vodkas and they got me a set in a few days.

I was hoping the difference in the Vodkas over good quality CAT 7 would be marginal, as it would save me quite a lot of money, head-scratching and perhaps a little abuse. Well, the unexpected embuggerance was that the Vodkas made a big difference in my system. The dealer let me keep the cables for three weeks, so there was plenty of time to listen properly and understand the differences. In my system the key changes are:
1. A richer, warmer and more natural sound
2. An real increase in speed and dynamics
3. Much wider and more coherent soundstage, with significantly more detail and control
4. A more musical and involving sound overall

I wouldn't suggest that everyone will experience the same level of benefit. My system has had quite a lot of honing, with dedicated mains, balanced power feeding the MD600, mechanical isolation etc. But in any well-sorted system around this level of quality (800 series, 7200 or 5200 etc.) I think you'd hear a very noticeable musical gain.

I didn't try the AQ cables either side of the Vodka (Forrest, Pearl, Diamond etc.) so can't comment on their relative impact on the music. Nor did I try the toe-curlingly expensive Chord Company 'Tuned Array' cables.

In the AQ range, the cost of AQ Diamonds is prohibitive for me, whereas the Vodkas, while hardly cheap, produce a very significant gain across many aspects of the music. With my system and my ears, it's not something I can do without now: the music is just much more involving. So I've ordered a set at the right lengths for my setup to replace the demo set.

Theory and preconceptions can sometimes get a little in the way of things. If you have good system and get a lot of joy from your music, borrow a set and experience them for yourself. You can't loose out from this experience, other than perhaps taking up some of your time installing the cables and listening to music.

Please don't shoot me for posting my experience. I'm sharing it because my system makes more involving music now and I think some people on the forum might experience the same enjoyment.


808v5, MD600 & DSP7200.1
Dedicated audio mains supply
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#235854 - 2015-05-30 06:44 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
Interesting, thanks for sharing!


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#235856 - 2015-05-30 07:13 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: DaveyC]
Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Ian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2004-08-07
Posts: 7,271
Loc: Surrey, England, UK
Originally Posted By DaveyC
It's been a while since I posted here, but seeing the brave comments from Mwiebelhaus and Crion, based on their experience, I thought I'd share my own experience with Ethernet cables.
I think the use of different cables affecting audio presentation for SpeakerLink audio connections is largely accepted, it is the use of exotic cables over appropriately specified network cabling for network use that is debatable.

In the case of Crion, his network test was vs. a UTP cable, hardly a fair comparison as in some circumstances, omitting any form of shielding as per a UTP cable may not be appropriate for the job as it allows EMI ingress into the chain, again, an accepted issue. I don't know if he ever repeated using a shielded or screened cable.

Iirc that Mwiebelhaus comment was regarding SpeakerLink.


Meridian owner since 1992
DSP5000 96/24, MC200, Prime & PSU, Focal Elear, Explorer 1 & 2, F80, 200/203 and various Sonos.
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#235858 - 2015-05-30 07:37 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ian]
Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question
3dit0r Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2012-04-17
Posts: 1,660
Loc: South UK
+1

I find notable differences in SQ between SPDIF cables on the 818-DSP run, and SpeakerLink run, when I had 5200s. However, I've never noticed an audible difference on the networking runs (e.g., MC200-Switch-818) only a reliability difference with good quality, shielded Cat 7 (made up as Cat 6+ due to termination).


818v3, DSP7200.2, Oppo BDP-95, Sony VPL-HW55ES projector, Russ Andrews/Kimber Mains Supplies, Cables and Supports, GIK Acoustics Room Treatments
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#235871 - 2015-05-30 11:16 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: 3dit0r]
Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 906
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 906
Loc: New York, NY, USA
I would add that there is a big difference in the world of patch cables. While for the $$$$, I will assume there are high standards for vodka cables, while picking any old cat7 isn't really a fair fight. I would call out Black box, but there are others.

I bet one of the premium network cable manufacturers actually make the audioquest.


Primary: MD600, MS200 (SpeakerLink to AES), Trinnov ST-2, Ayre V6-xe, Salk SS8 3x LRC.
Secondary: MC600 (whole house).
Zone one: 568.2, G57, MS200, Spatial Hologram M2SE.
Zone 2-6 (Awaiting assignment).
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