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#216840 - 2014-07-16 04:26 RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases)
Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 130
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 130
Loc: Hässleholm, Sweden
I have tested the Audioquest Vodka (RJ45 cable) from the Ethernet switch to the ID41 card in my 861 and to my MS600 and experienced a major improvement in sound quality. I also tested the cable to MS200 but nothing happend.

Has anyone a good explanation to this. How can a package based transmission be improved by a cable?


861v8+ID41,HD621,G98,Arcam P35,DSP7200SE,DSP7200HCSE, SW1600,DSP320, 2xMS600,3xMS200,DSP3200,AC200, Explorer2,2x218,AD88,Prime
Edited by Carl; 2015-07-26 20:13. Edit Reason: Subject changed (pending use case split out)
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#216911 - 2014-07-17 00:11 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2012-08-22
Posts: 73
Ikarus_CT Offline
Mostly harmless
Ikarus_CT Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-08-22
Posts: 73
Loc: Westport, Connecticut, USA
Herman,

The most probable reason is that AQ is Cat-7 and you have been using Cat-5e. In Cat7, each twisted pair is individually shielded, whereas, I believe, Cat5e is not shielded (see a picture of Cat7 in Wikipedia)

It all depends on how long the cable is and which path it is taking. Which brings the point of MS200 - you might hear the difference if you move MS200 to where MS600 is. It might very well be that there is much less RF around MS200 as it is now located - thus less (or no) improvement.

Lastly, if you can, I would recommend that you purchase a regular Cat7 cable and re-try your tests. Even though AQ seems to have better metallurgy & connectors, the SQ difference might be negligible. A typical 3ft (~1m) Cat7 is about $3.50 here in US. Not sure how much AQ costs.

In the end, your ears should decide smile


Main : C15, MD600, Aurender N10, EMM DAC2X, Boulder 865, Oppo BDP-95, JM Labs Maestro Utopia
Office : PC, Resonessence Invicta, HD800
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#216936 - 2014-07-17 03:35 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 130
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker
HermanAtHome Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2012-11-04
Posts: 130
Loc: Hässleholm, Sweden
What you say was my idea as well (RF interference). But I switched between AQ Vodka and AQ Cinnamon and could hear an improvement in sound quality.


861v8+ID41,HD621,G98,Arcam P35,DSP7200SE,DSP7200HCSE, SW1600,DSP320, 2xMS600,3xMS200,DSP3200,AC200, Explorer2,2x218,AD88,Prime
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#216938 - 2014-07-17 04:21 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2012-08-22
Posts: 73
Ikarus_CT Offline
Mostly harmless
Ikarus_CT Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2012-08-22
Posts: 73
Loc: Westport, Connecticut, USA

Well, there goes my theory as both AQ's are Cat7.

I do hear difference between Cat5e and Cat7 but not between different Cat7's.


Main : C15, MD600, Aurender N10, EMM DAC2X, Boulder 865, Oppo BDP-95, JM Labs Maestro Utopia
Office : PC, Resonessence Invicta, HD800
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#216947 - 2014-07-17 08:43 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ikarus_CT]
Registered: 2007-07-11
Posts: 1,031
Kswanson Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Kswanson Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-07-11
Posts: 1,031
Loc: San Diego area, CA, USA
Are they both shielded twisted pair?

Ken


Main: G68J, 5K2s, 5Ks, HSU subs, Pio 151FD, Dish VP722, Roku, Wadia I70, Anti Mode Dual Core, Oppo 103D Vanity Lite
Office: SBT, DSP6k's, 218, Roon.
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#216982 - 2014-07-17 20:40 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Kswanson]
Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 906
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being
Yetis Offline
Pan-dimensional being

Registered: 2007-09-06
Posts: 906
Loc: New York, NY, USA
If they are cat 7, I believe they are by default.


Primary: MD600, MS200 (SpeakerLink to AES), Trinnov ST-2, Ayre V6-xe, Salk SS8 3x LRC.
Secondary: MC600 (whole house).
Zone one: 568.2, G57, MS200, Spatial Hologram M2SE.
Zone 2-6 (Awaiting assignment).
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#216991 - 2014-07-17 23:27 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Yetis]
Registered: 2001-03-04
Posts: 273
Mwiebelhaus Offline
Hitchhiker
Mwiebelhaus Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2001-03-04
Posts: 273
Loc: Colorado, USA
I use an Audioquest Diamond Ethernet cable between the SpeakerLink output of my 818 to the SpeakerLink input of my 861.

In this application, balanced digital audio is being carried between the two pieces. I found this cable clearly superior to the SpeakerLink cable from Meridian and also superior enough to the AQ Vodka cable to justify its purchase.

There is no way to know without trying for yourself. BTW, I liked the Vodka cable better than the Meridian SpeakerLink cable, which in turn is better than a Cat 7 cable in my system for my application.


mw
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#216992 - 2014-07-17 23:39 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Mwiebelhaus]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
Sorry, but a Balanced AES Digital connection has much different requirements to a standard Ethernet connection which adds a whole layer of Error Correction and Packet Retransmission etc, etc that a Digital PCM stream does not have

If the original Cat 5 cable was Unshielded, then PERHAPS RFI interference is a concern (even though the ID41 has built in RFI filters)

I might consider using one of these Audioquest cables to see if it makes my personal finances spreadsheet look any better wink


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Edited by Ronnie; 2014-07-17 23:42.
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#216993 - 2014-07-17 23:42 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: HermanAtHome]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
Was it UTP or STP that was stamped onto the side of the original cable from your Router to your ID41??


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#216998 - 2014-07-18 00:24 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2001-03-04
Posts: 273
Mwiebelhaus Offline
Hitchhiker
Mwiebelhaus Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2001-03-04
Posts: 273
Loc: Colorado, USA
I always hesitate to post my experiences in tweaking performance of my Meridian setup because so many people say it makes no difference. High performance cables are a particular hot button.

From my many years of listening to music on a high resolution system as a hobby, I simply try for myself if at all curious. I arranged for a 30 day no risk audition of the Audioquest cables in my system. I removed the cat 7 cable I had made for me and substituted the AQ cables. My experiences lead me to post my comments and purchase the cable I did. If it did not make a difference or I felt it was not worth the cost, I would have returned it with nothing lost but a bit of my time. That is my attitude auditioning any thing viewed as a tweak. If curious, try for yourself. In your system, it may make a worthwhile difference like it did for me and you will enjoy your setup just that bit more. If no difference, nothing lost but your time and you move on. This is a hobby for enjoyment!


mw
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#217001 - 2014-07-18 00:34 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Mwiebelhaus]
Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
Ronnie Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2001-01-08
Posts: 4,124
Loc: UK
The point is that I don't doubt that Cable Construction and Termination can make a difference when used as A SpeakerLink or Balanced AES Digital connection cable.

However, when the Audioquest Cat 7 cable is used purely as an Ethernet cable, then aside from RFI Shielding, it's very difficult if not impossible for one Ethernet cable to perform differently to another.

Analog, Coax and SpeakerLink cables can offer performance differences... But SHIELDED Ethernet cables will perform equally in all applications.

If they didn't, think of the Catastrophic consequences for the Nuclear, Banking, Financial and Healthcare industries... Where both the RECEIPT and the TIMING of that Receipt is FAR more critical than it is for music reproduction.


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#217004 - 2014-07-18 01:02 Re: RJ45 Cables (Ethernet and SpeakerLink Use Cases) [Re: Ronnie]
Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,398
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question
Not'arf Offline
Working on the ultimate question

Registered: 2011-08-22
Posts: 1,398
Loc: Abruzzo, Italy
Cables? Don't get me started! I know next to nothing about the technical aspects and have never A-B tested any cables. For me, life's too short, but if someone hears (or thinks they hear) a difference, go for it! Life's too short not to upgrade!

wink


Audio: MC200, G61R SL, HD621, DSP5500, 5000C, DSP3100. Subs: 2 x REL G2.
Video: JVC X70, Black Diamond Zero Edge screen 129"(2.35).

Meridian owner since 1998
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