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#155487 - 2011-12-08 13:47 Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: Dpaws]
Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 338
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 338
Loc: Welwyn, Herts, UK
Originally Posted By: Crion
Following this thread with great interest. What about burson power regulators. Could these help with anything?
http://bursonaudio.com/burson_super_regulator.html
Crion, was that meant to be a forum thread? It looked like a page on the Bursen website. I did see this discussion of "super" regulators recently, but I'm sure there are many more.

There are lots of things that power supplies and regulators need to get right, and it looks like some are successful at some things, but not others. Things like:

voltage regulation
ripple rejection
load variation
supply variation
output impedance
noise
bandwidth
drop-out voltage

Nick

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#155495 - 2011-12-08 16:28 Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 338
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 338
Loc: Welwyn, Herts, UK
By way of contrast to the Meridian approach, I stumbled accross this link on another forum. It shows the extremes that Esoteric go to with their new P-02/D-02 combo. The transport and the DAC each have four independant toroidal transformer supplies. In the transport, the master audio clock even has its own dedicated supply.

Nick

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#155496 - 2011-12-08 17:06 Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2005-08-04
Posts: 203
Dpaws Offline
Hitchhiker
Dpaws Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2005-08-04
Posts: 203
Loc: Trieste, Italy
Bravo! I think that each manufacturer has their own area of expertise... Meticulous attention to power supplies has never been Meridians way.

There are improvements to be made, their first admission is changing the power supply to linear for the Anniversary models. But, maybe the typical Meridian clientèle doesn't care for the finer details, simply a multi room set up that sounds just fine is sufficient.

For me the most important factor is that limitation is acknowledged - the be all and end all is not simply a Meridian set up, but in taking the route of Meridian you accept the compromised that are imposed and that you are content to live with them.

I have electrostatic speakers that are certainly not in line with the M philosophy. It doesn't mean that I understand nothing because I don't have the 8k's, it just means that I'm seeking an alternative path that is equally as justified.

Each to their own... this is the pleasure of hi-fi

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#155647 - 2011-12-11 03:39 Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: Kristjansen]
Registered: 2006-07-18
Posts: 43
Pitt Offline
Mostly harmless
Pitt Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2006-07-18
Posts: 43
Loc: NRW, Germany
My NMC 905 arrived yesterday. smile

Peter


861v8, Front LS Focal 1038 Be II G57, 3 x CC 1008 Be II G56, no sub, Panasonic 42" plasma.
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#155653 - 2011-12-11 06:54 Re: Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: Pitt]
Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 338
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 338
Loc: Welwyn, Herts, UK
Great to hear that - please let us know how you get on.

And thanks for the tip on the FG Elektroniks supplies in the first place. Anything I can do to help, please let me know.

Nick

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#157196 - 2012-01-02 14:59 Re: Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2009-08-08
Posts: 32
Bryon Offline
Harmless
Bryon Offline
Harmless

Registered: 2009-08-08
Posts: 32
Loc: Los Angeles, California, USA
Thought I would add my PSU upgrade experience to this thread...

I have a G68 with a variety of mods, including a modded PSU. I hired a local modder to do the work. He started with a Condor SMPS and added new caps and rectifier. The results were increased resolution, decreased high frequency harshness, and better dynamics.

He also changed the clock and the op amps, so strictly speaking, I can't say how much of the improvement was attributable to the new PSU. But the overall effect was a dramatic improvement.

Here are the G68 Modified PSU Photos

Bryon


iMac -> Sonos -> Empirical Audio reclocker -> G68 (modded) -> Pass Labs XA30.5 amp -> Focal 1027be speakers + JL Audio F113 sub. Pioneer Elite PRO 151FD 60" display.

G68 mods... Custom power supply, Audiocom Superclock 4, Rubycon capacitors, WBT Nextgen connectors, ultra low noise op amps, analog output buffer, DSPC c00044, Revelation One filter.

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#158153 - 2012-01-12 07:48 Re: Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2006-07-18
Posts: 43
Pitt Offline
Mostly harmless
Pitt Offline
Mostly harmless

Registered: 2006-07-18
Posts: 43
Loc: NRW, Germany
Hi WelwynNick,

what's your state of play?

I have connected the NMC 905 provisional. It sounds great for five minutes, then it gets very hot (5V side), also in standby. The G68 seems to be a Class A preamp?
We need to find the cause of the large power consumption (5V) and fight it? Cooling the linear power supply more is IMHO the wrong way.

Peter


861v8, Front LS Focal 1038 Be II G57, 3 x CC 1008 Be II G56, no sub, Panasonic 42" plasma.
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#158471 - 2012-01-15 17:22 Re: Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: Pitt]
Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 338
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 338
Loc: Welwyn, Herts, UK
Sorry for the slow progress lately. All four PCs at home stopped working as Christmas approached, and I've been struggling to get them going again. If you're reading this it means that I've succeeded.

I have actually been putting a lot of time into the C61R linear PSU, but most of the work is finding the small bits and doing the mechanical work. The electrical connections could hardly have been easier - cut the old connectors off, strip the ends, and screw them into the FG connector blocks. Its very neat and it all works.

As you can see, I've turned the PSU upside-down and screwed the heatsink into the controller chassis - there's a bit of thermal paste squeezed out the edge of the heatsink. The effect of this is to create a more efficient heatsink, and the whole thing runs cooler now. I wouldn't like to guess the before and after temperatures, but I probably ought to try using some temperature tape.

However, because of the mechanical coupling, it runs noisier than before, and for the G68, I think I would prefer to use a larger supply that's running well inside its capacity. My experience so far is that they run cooler and quieter.

I suspect that a large supply under low load has low ripple as well. I tried running a few simulations, and other things being equal, a large rectifier capacitor allows you to use a secondary voltage close to the regulated output. In other words the ripple doesn't fall below the wanted voltage. I think this means a relatively smaller load will cause a smaller ripple ahead of the regulator, giving the latter an easy time. So whatever the reg's supply variation is, a larger supply will give a lower ripple. So the bigger the better, a la Naim.

Here's a few pictures of the FG 905 installation.











Nick

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#158473 - 2012-01-15 19:41 Re: Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,251
Mr Meridian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Mr Meridian Offline
President of the Imperial Galactic Government

Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 4,251
Loc: Perthshire, Scotland
Great work again Nick. Your tenacity in seeing this through is truly impressive.

You're doing such an in-depth job across the processor range that it looks likely that the vast majority of 'Hikers could benefit from your findings, should they so choose!

Cheers

George

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#160165 - 2012-02-06 13:35 Re: Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: Mr Meridian]
Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 338
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker
WelwynNick Offline
Hitchhiker

Registered: 2010-02-08
Posts: 338
Loc: Welwyn, Herts, UK
Quick Update. I used to own a G68J, but I sold it rather quickly in hindsight, and didn't make the most of the opportunity to see what I could do with it. I'm modifying other HH'ers gear now, so further opportunities are presenting themselves again. I'm working on another G68J, and it isn't quite as straightforward as I thought. There's lots of space - enough for the PSU & amp for many receivers, so I wanted to fit something more generous than the FG NMC-305. Unfortunately, the cooling fan and the motherboard supports get in the way of the obvious choices like the generic HCBB-75W and CP-498 supplies, so I did a trial fit with the HDBB-105W. The big 5V smoothing cap fouled the fan, so I moved the cap from the base to the side, and look what happened:



I have a couple of other things to try, and I'm pretty sure the FG NMC-105 would do a good job, but in the meantime I'm pleased that the new 818 has a linear supply as well. Roll-on the 861v8!

Nick

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#160172 - 2012-02-06 14:16 Re: Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: WelwynNick]
Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 3,963
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant
dpstjp Offline
Vogon Civil Servant

Registered: 2006-11-08
Posts: 3,963
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: WelwynNick
The big 5V smoothing cap fouled the fan, so I moved the cap from the base to the side, and look what happened:


Nick,

I'm being unbelievably stupid. Can't see anything particular in your picture. What did happen?


Sooloos, Roon, G series (with LPS upgrade), 800 series (with LPS upgrade), HD621, AC200, Prime and PS, DSPs old and new.

Purdeys, Moke, Leica, 'Blad. Only the best.
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#160176 - 2012-02-06 14:54 Re: Re: Power supply upgrade [Re: dpstjp]
Registered: 2004-01-16
Posts: 456
DVD Pete Offline
Paranoid android
DVD Pete Offline
Paranoid android

Registered: 2004-01-16
Posts: 456
Loc: Ringwood, Hampshire, UK
That is one mother of a PSU, How exciting. cool


My Stuff: Meridian G91, G68J, Rotel RMB-1075, F L&R JM Focal 714s, M33C, R L&R Celestion Monitors, REL Stampede, PS3, Roku Soundbridge M2000, Airport Express, JVC D-ILA HD100
Edited by DVD Pete; 2012-02-06 14:55. Edit Reason: Someone moved my keys on the keyboard
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